Your Struggles Don’t Define You – Marcus Whitney LIVE with Adam Sud
This episode's guest on #MWL is Adam Sud. Adam has an incredible story, and we talk about how he has been able to turn his life around through adopting a plant-based diet, practicing mindfulness, and disregarding old notion that your personal struggles define you as "forever broken."
Adam's work through Plant Based for Positive Change aims to scientifically demonstrate that adopting the right nutrition can aid addicts in their journeys of recovery.
Where to watch live:
https://youtube.com/marcuswhitneysvideouniverse
https://facebook.com/marcuswhitney
https://linkedin.com/in/marcuswhitney
https://twitter.com/marcuswhitney


MW
what's good
happy Monday another episode of Marcus
Whitney live this is one I held off for
a minute because this guy has been such
a huge part of my lifestyle that I'm
living right now I went to an event last
summer called Nexus Global Summit and it
was this incredible event that brought
together thought leaders and social
entrepreneurs and philanthropists and
just world changers people who had clear
mission clear purpose and were out there
living on purpose and I kept seeing this
guy sort of with this glow walking
through the hallways you know really
nicely dressed young and I finally just
like I don't know how we bumped into
each other but we sat down on the
stadium steps and talked and I feel like
I lost an hour and a half of my life in
this conversation with this guy his his
story is absolutely remarkable and I
know you're gonna enjoy hearing this
story so welcome to the show Adam Sud
Adam how are you man
AS
oh man thank you so
much yeah I remember that talk we had
that was a good one you know we just
have like a meaningful connection with
somebody it's just so wonderful
MW
it was it was fantastic man and it was
so timely for me because I I was just
sort of on the other side of six months
of sobriety when I met you and and I
think because of the topics that we were
discussing at the moment at Nexus global
summit I was definitely thinking a lot
about my diet and the environment you
know the the topic was there were lots
of topics but one of the big topics was
definitely climate change right… and
and there were so many incredible
presentations and and people would
written books
on it and it just it just sort of hit me
that Wow changing my diet is one of
those things that I could do
it'll be relatively simple for me to do
quite frankly you know like once it once
you you you go sober you start realizing
you do have these abilities to kind of
make these really meaningful changes in
your life right and so actually and man
you know I left that that event in July
and probably a month later I I went full
plant-based and have been since then and
you know and and feel incredible I've
never been stronger physically I've
never been longer than I am right now
and so I think that event really helped
me to make that decision in terms of you
know the lifestyle but my conversation
with you is probably a big key because
it integrated so many of those things so
I think with that would you please just
share a little bit of your backstory
which which blew me away so I know it's
gonna blow this audience away
AS
yes so
thank you
you know my story starts I'm a seventh
generation Texan and I'm also Jewish so
I grew up eating burgers and barbecue
and bagels and blintzes right so you
know the furthest thing from anything
that can be considered a healthy bed but
it was definitely a cultural diet right
so you know growing up as a kid in Texas
in a Jewish community you know I didn't
question any of it and I also never
questioned myself I never I remember his
up until the age of 10 aged 10 was when
everything really shifted for me because
until then I fully accepted myself
completely and I never I never there was
never a condition to which I could not
love myself my body how I showed up for
the world and then by age ten without
you know without with no evil intentions
just you know my I was hanging out in my
summer in Texas no shirt on running
around in my my mom and my dad say oh my
gosh you you have love handles how did
that happen
I'm ten I don't know what love handles
are I sure don't know how I got them I
wasn't feeding myself and I could tell
that they are asking because it wasn't
something that they thought was
acceptable and then from that moment on
I bought into this story that there was
only there were certain conditions to
which I could and could not love myself
there were conditions to which the world
had created to which I was
or was not acceptable and from that
point on I was ashamed constantly
ashamed because one I didn't understand
it I didn't know how it happened I felt
that if I couldn't correct this problem
then my parents wouldn't love me the
world wouldn't love me I wouldn't be
acceptable to the world which is a
terrifying thing and from I started to
notice any indication any cue from
anyone anything about myself that they
didn't like and then believe it was
wrong that was the moment to which
everything about me became dependent
upon the acceptance of others
Wow and I got diagnosed with ADHD at age
12 again here's a doctor telling me that
there's something about me that just
doesn't work properly that I have to
hide from the rest of the world by
taking medication and that that was the
route that you do is like oh this is
know you're born this way again so now
I'm being told that this is this isn't
this is me this is who I am I am this
condition I'm a person with broken parts
unlike the rest of the world and in
order to fix that broken part and hide
it from people I have to take a pill and
that created this narrative for me that
when there's something wrong about me
that I don't accept or that others don't
accept or the world doesn't accept I'm
gonna find a substance to fix that
broken part of me or at least to hide it
because the shame of knowing other
people see it was just crushing for me
and in high school my prescription
became adderall and things got really
out of hand really fast because I found
out very early on at a party that
adderall is a recreational drug and when
I used it as a recreational drug
obviously it was hooked to what it did
for me because it seemed to magically
fix all of the things that were so
difficult for me to fix about myself it
was like a magic one boom you're the
person the world wants you to be
immediately all you have to do is take
these pills and you are accepted
completely and it works for me I was a
little overweight in high school
adderall's and feta mean guess what
weights gone my dad and I his
relationship was struggling because I
had really poor study habits guess what
adderall No
problem I look like I'm the person my
dad wants me to be uh I was very shy in
high school I was late to start puberty
when I'm on adderall I'm the most
confident person in the room so I was
making friends I lost weight I had
girlfriends I got a scholarship to
college I wanted to go to and then in
college it was like overnight too much
became not enough not enough became a
constant concern in my life how much do
I have how long will it last where will
I get more how much will it cost where
will I get the money to pay for it that
was all I thought about and it was all
the time and I stopped caring about my
schoolwork I stopped caring about my
friends I stopped caring about my family
all I wanted to do was to feel the way
the drugs made me feel because being
conscious fully sober and conscious was
painful mmm and I dropped out of college
I ended up dealing and buying drugs on
the street I started stealing from
people and I started dr. shopping where
you have multiple doctors prescribing
the same medication
I started forging prescriptions I was
treating my family like absolute garbage
and I was doing so much amphetamines and
opiates so much constantly that I would
run out really quickly and then I found
that an amazing substitute for me was
fast food and I would get up every
single day and I would go get four
potato egg and cheese breakfast tacos
then I go to McDonald's get two
super-sized quarter-pounder meals then I
go to water Burger get the extra-large
honey barbecued chicken strips sandwich
meal then I get a extra large piece from
Papa John's for dinner then three
breakfasts on a bun sandwiches and
sausage from water burger at 3 in the
morning during the course the day I
drink 15 sodas and when I say I was
abusing substances the average
prescription for adderall is about 10
milligrams a day I was doing 450
milligrams in a 24 hour period on
average there were days when I would top
a thousand and after five days of
consecutively popping for five hundred
to a thousand milligrams of adderall I'd
end up in a drug-induced psychosis where
I'd start to down opiates over and over
again so I could finally go to sleep I
was about 350 pounds
and leaving hurt I had been completely
disconnected from every meaningful bond
that had ever existed in my life my
family myself my purpose the world
around me were completely gone my life
was a dark hoarders like filthy
apartment with empty pill bottles and a
pile of pills on the count on the on the
coffee table
I had already developed a wrecked-tile
dysfunction
I had these cuts on my legs that weren't
healing they were I would scratched
mosquito bites and they would get
infected and I didn't understand what
was going on and you know I have a twin
brother who I'm really really close with
and I can remember calling him at the
beginning of August of 2012 and I told
him that you know things were really
tough and I don't really know what's
going on but you know I wanted to
promise to him that I would never commit
suicide because I didn't want him to
live without me and I didn't want to
live without him but on August 21st of
2012 I just I couldn't see any other
option and it wasn't a plan I just had
this firm belief that everything that
was wrong about me and my life that day
was the worst that had ever been and
tomorrow it was going to be even worse
and when in tomorrow
is that difficult and you know it's
gonna continue to get worse eventually
tomorrow is impossible and I attempted
suicide by drug overdose and I can
remember the moment right before I
blacked out I tried to stand up and my
entire right side cramp
it felt like I was getting stabbed in
the Sun in the stomach and that was
really painful but the feeling that
you're dying and I'm not talking about
the physical feeling I'm talking about
this feeling of belief that that was my
last moments on earth and those last
moments on earth were completely
separate from every loving connection
I've ever experienced in life not
because they left me but because I've
made it my goal to push everyone away it
was the most terrifying thing I've ever
experienced starts to fade in I fall
forward that's the last thing I remember
until I wake up in a puddle of vomit
in a pile of fast-food garbage
surrounded by empty pill bottles and had
this overwhelming feeling of relief and
I found that odd because I was under the
impression that the suicide attempt was
an attempt to end my life and if that
were true I wouldn't have been relieved
I would have been angry because it would
a minute I would've had to attempt it
again mm-hmm but what that relief taught
me was that my suicide attempt was not
an attempt in my life it was an attempt
to end my pain my drug use was a direct
result of not being able to show up in a
life that was too painful a place to be
and the reason I felt relief was because
even with all the pain I was
experiencing there was something about
myself something about the world
something about the people that I that I
share this life with that mean so much
to me that I still wanted to be a part
of it all and be in pain and so I picked
up the phone and I asked for help
checking to rehab diagnosed with type
two diabetes high blood pressure high
cholesterol erectile dysfunction bipolar
disorder obsessive-compulsive
personality disorder anxiety disorder
sleep disorder attention deficit
disorder and suicidal depression and I
was put on a cabinet worth of medication
for life and I was given an option to
believe two stories and luckily before
that I had the opportunity to hear a man
named Rip Esselstyn who is the executive
producer of the film the game changers
and it he talked about how a plant-based
I can reverse disease and he had all the
science and everything sauce here this
doctor telling me that I'm diabetic
because cuz genetic because I'm gonna be
diabetic for the rest of my life because
it's just gonna get worse I have heart
disease because genetic it's gonna get
worse and I could believe that I had the
opportunity to believe that story
or I could believe this other story that
was presented to me by Rip Esselstyn and
he's thought you know these legendary
doctors and that was that there's never
been anything wrong with me that the
reason why I find myself in a situation
of obesity with disease is because that
is the body's reasonable response to how
I had been living and that I could
reverse it if I just changed the way
that I'm living and I said you know what
I'm done believing other people's
stories about me I'm going to believe
that I am in this moment and I've always
been everything I need to be to own my
health and well-being someone else told
me differently and I believed it and
that has been the source of all of my
struggles I believe myself to be
completely acceptable love my body
everything until somebody at age 10 told
me differently and I believed their
story of who I was supposed to be in
high school kids didn't want to be
around me for reasons I thought was my
problem until I use drug I believe the
story that I was only worthy of friends
when I was high that's my fault
I believed it I didn't know any better
but I believed it here's an opportunity
again to believe myself so broken that
I'm gonna be sick for the rest of my
life or that I've always been healthy my
body has been doing everything it can to
keep me alive despite all the pain I've
been giving it that's the story I bought
into
I adopted a whole food, plant-based
diet after 37 days of rehab when I moved
into sober living, and I told myself that
this is going to be the most
uncomfortable thing I've ever done. I'm
trying to get sober from 10 years of
substance abuse. I am as sick as I've
ever been.
I'm 350 pounds, but there's got to be
something about myself or my life that I
love enough to be willing to be
comfortable being uncomfortable so that
I can show up authentically and
completely, and reconnect to those
meaningful bonds in life. And I told
myself... look, I tried for years to hate
myself enough to hate my life enough to
want to change, and I'm done trying to do
that. Yeah, I had diabetes and heart
disease, I didn't want it. Yes, I was obese.
I didn't want to be obese, and yes, I
nearly died, and I don't want to die. Why
not? What was it about myself that I
loved enough? And for me, I wanted to
finally be able to show my body that I
love what it does for me, not what it
looks like. That I love that it never
gave up on me despite everything that I
was doing. I wanted to reconnect to a
family that never gave up on me. I wanted to
reconnect to a purpose that has been
waiting for me. And so I get up every
single day and I prepare these meals on
a plate, and I would use them as acts of
self love and self care. I would say that
this is me making a statement to myself
that I am worthy of recovery. I'm worthy
of health. And in three months, the
diabetes, the heart disease, the erectile
dysfunction were completely reversed.
Within a year, I was
off of every single psych med I was put
on, and I had lost over 120 pounds. As of
now, I've lost 180 pounds and I'm the
healthiest I've ever been. But more so
than that was the vehicle -food- I used it
as a vehicle to reconnect to those
meaningful bonds that have been severed
early in life. I said to myself, “if this
is proof of anything, that this is proof
that I didn't have to become a healthy
version of myself. I've always been that,
I just forgot it.”
So maybe recovery is not a
transformation to a sober person, but
more practice of remembering who I've
always been before the world taught me
differently. And so these feelings
of anger and frustration and anxiety...
maybe they're equally human. Maybe
they're equally healthy and as equally
meaningful as love, and excitement, and
joy. What if all emotions are simply a
reasonable response to life, and that
they've only been a problem for me when
I view some of them as worthy of
acceptance and others as necessary to
fight, right. To see one half of the
breadth of human emotion as my enemy
means I'm gonna be fighting myself every
single day for reasonable things. And so
if I'm willing to just simply be in, you
know, this -you're into meditation- be
the observer of what arises in me. Listen
to this meaningful signal that is coming
up to teach me something, to see these
feelings as my companion rather than my
enemy.
Maybe then, if I stop trying to be right
and just be in the moment right now, I'll
learn more about myself than I ever have.
And that's exactly what happened.
and I
have been sober now for eight years and
I have been able to become the most
authentic version of myself that I think
I've ever been and I believe it's a
daily quest I think it's a daily
practice of getting up showing up
learning right but I do know this all
that shame that I experience in my life
everything all the pain made sense I've
never been broken I'm not now nor have I
ever been and nobody listening on this
call is broken
none of us shame doesn't arise because
there's unlovable and broken parts in us
shame arises because there are parts of
ourselves that we haven't
learn how to love and that is what
recovery is all about that is what I
believe nutrition is all about and so
that's that's why I'm alive today and
that's why I'm so passionate about
nutrition about mental health and why
I've combined those two into my purpose
in life
MW
so the gosh where to go from there is is
pretty hard but I do want to say you
told me this story before but I there
were actually I just learned some new
things
um which make your story even more
incredible but the where you landed in
the end is very much why I resonated so
much with what you said and why I felt
like it was something you know you sort
of reinforced this idea that I should
you know walk down this path which was
I
just did not
I didn't enjoy identifying
recovery as some sense of brokenness. I
just, for me, that was really,
fundamentally off. You know it just didn't
work for me. It just didn't work for me, right.
And when we talked, you know, and you
basically like said the same thing. I
was like -and I and I hadn't heard a lot
of people say that by the way- that's...
AS
A lot of people want to be in the camp
that “once an addict,
always an addict.”
MW
Right, right. And so, that
part is so incredibly empowering for
people who struggle with the just the
dissonance of wanting to take the steps
of recovery but not really wanting to
embrace an identity of forever
brokenness, right. You know what I mean?
AS
And I think it's important... I think it's
important not to identify by what we
struggle with, but see our struggles as a
reasonable response to how we're living
or what we've experienced, right? And to say
that “I am an addict” is a false narrative,
right. My substance abuse makes complete
sense if you look at the disconnection, and the shame, and all the things that
have happened. And then you look at what
the first time I use substances, right
-the first time I use adderall-
was the most successful thing I've ever
found to escape that pain.
MW
Right, right. It works.
AS
I had bonded with
it so well because I knew no other way
to escape that pain. I had not yet
learned that it was okay not to know. And
so I was ashamed. And I was afraid.
And adderall was like, “I got you man.
I got you.” For the first time, it
was like somebody was giving me a hug
saying, “I got you covered.”
And I think
that, you know, people who are addicts are
not criminals. People who are depressed
are not sick. People who are suicidal are
not crazy. Every one of those is a human
being in pain. And I think that if we
stop identifying people by what they
struggle with, it'll be easier for us to
listen to what they need. And then we'll
see that their pain makes sense.
And then we can be that person who says
-sits down and says- I don't really care
what's the matter with you, I want to
help you reconnect to what matters to
you. And that is the most important thing,
I think in recovery, is to say that, “what
if there's nothing wrong with me? What if
I'm just no longer meaningfully
connected to everything that's ever
mattered to me? Now how can I build
those reconnections?” I’m not saying substance
abuse is a good thing, I think
-obviously- people are struggling
with substance abuse have to address
that as an issue. But it isn't the
problem, it's a symptom. It's a reasonable
response to what's going on.
MW
yeah
So so
one of the things that I find very
difficult -because I don't read a lot of
plant-based or vegan literature- is
effectively communicating to people what
it feels like to be sort of on this side
of the sober, sleeping well, meditating,
and definitely plant-based lifestyle
life. Like what living in this
body at 44 feels like compared to any
other point in my adult life. It is a
very... it's almost impossible to
communicate it. But part of your work is
is to try to study this, right? So
share a bit about the work that you're
doing right now to help to bring bring
some
science and some clinical awareness
to the value of this lifestyle.
AS
Yeah, so
when I when I got out of recovery, I
spent ten months in sober living. So by
that point, I had been nearly a year of
recovery. And here I am. I'm the
healthiest I've ever been. I'm on zero
medications. I'm running for the first
time in my life, and I have all this
confidence and belief that all this stuff
is now possible -that the world is now
possible-. And I thought this is
interesting because a lot of the people
-I would say most of the people that I went
through recovery with, who I lived with
through those ten months- had either ended
up on the same medications but higher
dosages... on more medications... had either
gained weight and been diagnosed with more
chronic disease. So what does the
research say? Where's the research on
nutrition and early addiction recovery?
And there isn't any. There's never been a
study ever done investigating the effect
of nutrition on early addiction recovery
outcomes. And when I say early addiction
recovery outcomes, we're not looking at
sobriety, what we’re looking at is the
mental health outcomes that are
measurable through early addiction
recovery stages. So from day one of
exiting detox, to say six months. And
I thought, that's ridiculous. Because when
you go into treatment, when you check
into a rehab hospital, not only are you
fed the exact same thing as everyone
else, you’'re fed at the
exact same time. Like it's a
perfect controlled environment, how has never
been investigated? So last year, I founded
my nonprofit which is called Plant Based
for Positive Change with the sole
purpose of running the very first study
to investigate those things. It's called
the Infinite Study, and what it is is a
10-week intervention where we are doing
a controlled trial to investigate the
differences in the impact of diet on
addiction recovery outcomes. So an
individual will spend -within the first
24 hours of checking out of detox- they
had the opportunity to join the study.
And they were put into either the
control diet which is the diet that's
currently being served at the treatment
center, which I'll go ahead and say it is a elevated Western diet.
There's not a lot of refined, processed
foods at all. There's still meat, eggs,
dairy, and oil. And then there's the
treatment diet, which is a oil-free,
plant-based diet.
No added sugar. No added oil. Whole, intact
plants. What we're measuring is the
impact that those diets have on various
blood biomarkers. So full lipid panel. High
sensitivity C reactive protein, which is
a measure for inflammation. Omega-3, which
is a huge factor in brain health. We're
also looking at various vitamins -in B12,
D3- and we're also looking at changes in
what's called your gut microbiome. And
for people who don't know what that is,
the gut microbiome is about four to six
pounds of bacteria that exists within
your gut. And what these bacteria do is
they do processes for your body that
your body cannot do for itself.
Specifically the conversion of specific
nutrients to short chain fatty acids, and
those short chain fatty acids do lots of
things like the production of
neurotransmitters, for example. And what's
really fascinating is that, Marcus, if I
were to take you and count up all the
number of cells that are your human
cells right -the Marcus cells- it would
number about 10 trillion. There's 10
trillion Marcus cells. If I were to
number and count the number of cells
that make up your gut microbiome... it's
300 trillion. You are technically less
than 10 percent human if you look at all
the cells in your body. That is how
impactful the microbiome is.
So we're looking at those changes and
how they relate to changes of validated
scales of measuring anxiety, depression,
self-compassion, resiliency, spiritual
healing, eating disorder, mania, obsessive
compulsive drug use. So what we're
looking at is, “how does food nutrition
education create a stronger foundation
for which someone then has the ability
to reconnect meaningfully to their life?”
And so we're really excited about it.
MW
and
I know the study is underway is there
anything you're able to sort of share I
mean and if there's no that's fine but
AS
no no so we've been running it since
January okay and we do have some some
preliminary results and what I can say
is that we are incredibly excited by
what we're finding
MW
that's amazing
AS
we're incredibly excited I have an
unbelievable team as well my lead
investigator is a woman named Tara Kemp
who is a brilliant
researcher and her focus is something
called psychosocial health okay is an
interdisciplinary PhD in psychology
sociology and nutrition and then the
doctors are doctors Dean and Isis shares
I and they are the world's leading
neuroscientists on cognitive longevity
and they wrote the book called the
outsider solution which is how you can
prevent and reverse dementia and
Alzheimer's through lifestyle measures
specifically plant-based nutrition today
I have a plan called neuro which is
nutrition education or nutrition
exercise unwinding restoration and
optimization so your nutrition moving
your body having some kind of ability to
unwind and reset yourself right
you have restoration which is proper
sleep okay an optimization which is how
you optimize your cognitive function
right learning to play music you know
learning another language how do you
optimize the ability to keep your mind
sharp yep and so they are the they're
the doctors on the study it's just
unreal
MW
dude okay we're 30 minutes you
just like blew through our show and you
know I don't know what else I was
expecting it this has been incredible
you know just give me a little bit of
parting wisdom sure you're you're eight
years into your journey of sobriety
you're now studying this for a life
you're you know we're living in
completely unprecedented times um you
know how are you sort of distilling this
this knowledge in and your your life's
purpose into something that you feel
like could be accessible to many people
there's so many things you said that I
could just pick up but I'm just
I'd love to eat just hear from from you
in your words
AS
so anyone who wants to
follow what I write about you can follow
me on plant-based addict and Instagram
but lately I've been doing one taking
this opportunity my good friend David
Clarke who passed away this year he
passed away from complications due to
surgery he was a former 320 pound
alcoholic turned vegan ultra runner he
went his run here and in Leadville 100
nine times okay which is a hundred mile
race that starts at 9,000 feet it ends
at 15,000 feet he's done bad water this
guy's one of the greatest runners
he's also one of the most genuinely
brilliant and self explorative person
I've ever met right
this person had this parting advice for
people and I love it we've all heard the
same if you want to be happy live like
it's the last day of your life we've all
heard that and he said that that doesn't
work what he says is if you want to be
happy
treat everyone you meet as if they're
living the last day of their life
because what would you be willing to
accept from people what amount of
compassion would you have for someone's
anger if you honestly believed if they
had one more day left on this planet how
would it change the way you viewed the
world what would it allow you to do in
terms to accept people for anything race
gender sexual preference if you truly
believe this is their last day on earth
what kind of person would that make you
when you interact with them so that's
what I leave with people because I want
to leave this world with as much of
David Clark as I can
MW
ladies and gentlemen the incredible and
incomparable Adam süd Adam thank you so
much man we'll have to check back in
with you you know when the study is
officially ready to be shared with the
world we'll bring you back on thank you
man thank you for just being an
incredible inspiration I know like we
haven't seen each other in person but I
do feel like you know I do feel like we
have a connection and I did too you know
and I'm just I'm grateful for the work
that you do and for the light you
represent in the world so thank you man
thank you so much really appreciate it
everybody out there you've got to follow
Adam I know if you watch this you're
super inspired on Instagram he he shares
a beautiful journey at plant-based
addict you can check out his website
plant-based for positive change org
that's his new nonprofit where this
study is happening follow this man
support this man he's doing incredible
things in the world and I just I love
him I think he's the best almost a week
from today a week in one day creating
orchestrate June 30th 2020 the book I've
been working on for five years so
excited to get it out into the world my
podcast Marcus Whitney's audio universe
on all popular pocket
platforms and you can follow me just
about everywhere at Marcus Whitney and
that is it y'all
another incredible show and I hope you
all are doing great out there and I look
forward to seeing you tomorrow and until
then let's build a new normal piece