Today’s guest on #MWL is Michael Weintrob. We discuss entrepreneurship in music and photography, as well as the innovation needed to pivot during COVID-19.

Michael also talks about his book, “Instrumenthead" available here.

Where to watch live:
https://youtube.com/marcuswhitneysvideouniverse
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https://linkedin.com/in/marcuswhitney
https://twitter.com/marcuswhitney

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Get The Full Episode Transcription

MW

welcome

00:13

back on the Wednesday

00:15

Marcus Whitney live happy to see you all

00:18

today and really thrilled to have my

00:21

guest

00:22

today this is a good friend and we've

00:24

spent more time than normal together

00:28

over the last couple of months because

00:30

we're both launching books right in the

00:32

same window of time and he just launched

00:35

his book yesterday he is an accomplished

00:39

CEO former CEO and founder of in quicker

00:43

also when the former CEOs of the

00:45

Nashville entrepreneur center and blew

00:49

me out of the water with this TEDx

00:50

Nashville talk he now has the the most

00:52

viewed TEDx Nashville talk in history

00:55

I'm talking about the one the only my

00:57

good friend Michael Brody-Waite… Mike

00:59

what's going on brother?

 

MBW

 what's up man

01:01

I'm like blushing over here so thank you

01:03

for that 

 

MW

yeah man it's great to great to

01:05

have you on the show man how are you

01:06

doing today?

 

MBW

um today you know we were

01:10

talking about this before like I'm

01:11

excited cuz the books out I'm excited to

01:13

be talking to you I'm also a little sad

01:15

cuz this isn't what I thought it would

01:17

look like when my book would is gonna

01:18

come out but I'm very grateful to you

01:21

know be worrying about things like that

01:23

in a lot of ways 

 

MW

yeah yeah and that's

01:26

that's probably a great segue just to

01:29

give the audience a let's let's maybe

01:32

cap it at five minutes but a great

01:33

background on who you are you have a

01:35

fantastic back story very deserving of a

01:38

TED talk and I'm glad that you wrote

01:41

this book certainly been inspiring one

01:44

of the things I've loved about you is

01:45

you've you've just always been you've

01:47

led with your truth in in every

01:50

interaction that that I've had with you

01:52

and that you've had with the world

01:53

broadly so to say a little bit about

01:55

yourself and then we'll definitely dig

01:56

into your book 

 

MBW

awesome so at the age of

02:00

23 I was hopelessly addicted alcohol and

02:04

drugs every day when I got up that was

02:06

my obsession I didn't care who I robbed

02:08

I didn't care who I hurt I didn't care

02:10

what happened to my body I've been

02:12

kicked out of school kicked out of my

02:13

job kicked out of my house my car got

02:15

repossessed I was throwing up blood and

02:17

I wanted to OD and take myself out

02:20

because I didn't see a way to recover

02:23

and then September 1st 2002 I woke up at

02:27

the Betty Ford Center in Rancho Mirage

02:29

California rehab facility and I learned

02:33

a different way to live... and that way to

02:37

live is a way that I learned it through

02:40

a 12-step program that addicts all

02:43

around the world learn how to stop using

02:45

and that's not special that's not

02:48

different... but what I really have been

02:51

obsessed with is over the years how can

02:53

I take the principles that I learned in

02:55

recovery and apply them to a unique

02:57

place in my professional life as a

02:58

leader I spent eight years in corporate

03:01

America working my way up from a kiosk

03:04

rep in a mall to a corporate leader with

03:07

19 direct reports with no college degree

03:10

with long hair hoop earrings and

03:12

flip-flops from California in the South

03:14

trying to say y'all and butchering it

03:15

like crazy... and and one of the things I

03:19

learned in building my career is I

03:21

thought that practicing what I was

03:23

taught in recovery would make me an

03:24

outsider and hold me back from being

03:27

successful and it did one of those two

03:30

things it made me an outsider… it

03:33

didn't hold me back from being

03:34

successful and if I when I you know one

03:37

of the things I distill this down to

03:38

which is very timely and interesting is

03:40

I believe that all leaders are taught

03:43

that we have to wear a mask now I've

03:45

been saying this before the freaking

03:46

pandemic so I mean a figurative mask

03:49

I've had actually had people be like

03:50

what are you saying people shouldn't

03:51

wear physical mass I'm like no dude like

03:54

I mean figurative a mask but like right

03:56

leaders for centuries have hid their

03:59

true selves in the name of success the

04:01

same way drug addicts hide their true

04:02

cells and the name of the next hit and

04:04

the next high but I think that truly

04:07

great leaders learn how to do what I

04:10

call living mask free and that is

04:12

something that there is only one segment

04:14

of our society that has been rigorously

04:16

trained on how to do this and that is

04:18

recovering addicts and millions of

04:20

addicts around the world have a

04:21

processing system for living leading

04:23

mask free and I thought doing that

04:25

In corporate America would make me a failure and

04:27

it made me the manager of the people

04:29

that were my mentors and it gave me a

04:32

leg up not because I was special but

04:33

because I was working a different set of

04:36

principles that were counterintuitive at

04:37

the time and I left that that job and I

04:41

and I realized that was

04:43

an advantage for me and I 

04:45

co-founded and InQuicker, launched a

04:47

company I shouldn't have launched we had

04:49

no capital we had no connections we had

04:52

no patents we had no Ivy League degrees

04:54

we had nothing man but a credit card and

04:57

a hope to reinvent access to healthcare

04:59

and we did that... and when looking back

05:02

the reason that we were successful is

05:03

because we actually built a mask free

05:05

culture we built a culture that was

05:08

similar to the experience that I would

05:10

have in my 12-step meetings and so

05:13

that's why then did the TED talk and

05:14

wrote the book because I realized that

05:16

if people can take the principles that

05:18

addicts have been using for 80 years to

05:20

recover and apply them as a specific

05:23

leadership system to live in lead masks

05:25

free I think you can gain a competitive

05:26

advantage and one of the things I talk

05:28

about is you can reclaim 500 hours a

05:31

year just by living and leading masks

05:34

free in one minute a day using the

05:37

system that addicts used to recover and

05:39

it feels like a secret weapon and so now

05:42

I'm on on a mission and equip this with...

05:45

give everybody that's ever said I can't

05:47

show my true self to be successful in

05:49

the work life my mission is to equip

05:51

them with not just hope and inspiration

05:53

and the what in the why there's a lot of

05:56

people that do that that's great the

05:57

actual how... like no matter what you

06:00

execute this you will be able to fulfill

06:02

the value proposition and so that's why

06:04

I'm here today

 

MW

06:05

what why do you think that this this way

06:10

of living has only been taught in the in

06:16

the rooms of alcoholics and drug addicts...

06:20

addicts broadly what you know people who

06:23

who are practicing 12-step programs... why

06:26

do you think the... and we and we know that

06:31

those rooms don't have any demographic

06:34

or even sort of psychographic you know...

06:38

or socio-economic

06:40

limits to them right they no touch all

06:42

yeah all ranges of humanity 

 

MBW

addiction

06:47

does not discriminate 

 

MW

right yeah you you

06:49

can end up in those rooms so I think

06:51

when that's the case, I just find it to

06:55

be interesting something that could be

06:56

as universal as addiction, why do you

06:59

think that the the principles and the

07:01

practice have been limited to those

07:03

rooms up until now?

 

MBW

I think that's a

07:06

great question no one's ever actually

07:07

asked me that so that's that's a great

07:09

question... and I think that the at the key

07:11

it's just

07:12

necessity is a mother of all invention

07:14

and I think that I argue in my book that

07:19

I see a lot of similarities between

07:21

attics hiding their true selves to get

07:24

the next hit and and leaders hiding

07:27

their true selves to get the next

07:28

successful milestone and I think that

07:31

leaders are actually addicted to their

07:33

masks and that's kind of what I argue

07:35

and so at the end of the day one of the

07:38

reasons that addicts use is because they

07:40

want to hide themselves and so we relate

07:42

to the struggle the problem is that when

07:45

the leader hides himself they get a

07:46

promotion when I hide myself as an

07:48

addict I get dead or locked up... and so we

07:52

needed a more rigorous like I mean

07:53

anybody that knows me knows that like

07:55

I'm a huge fan boy a brunet brown like

07:57

you know worship or work but when I read

07:58

her book it really pissed me off when I

08:00

tried to get other people to practice it

08:02

cuz they couldn't do it and so there's a

08:04

big difference between hey you should...

08:05

you know... one of the things we talked

08:07

about in recovery is if it was as simple

08:09

as hey stop using people would just stop

08:12

using I mean if it was as simple as oh

08:14

here's a book with some ideas I'm not

08:16

using people would just stop using you

08:18

need to have a step-by-step system any

08:20

business knows this you need to scale

08:22

your core value proposition through

08:25

process... what we needed the same thing to

08:27

be able to live mask free as recovering

08:29

addicts because if we don't come out

08:30

into the light we die in the darkness

08:32

and we just have a greater incentive

08:34

then I think the rest of the world to

08:36

figure out how to do that through a

08:39

method 

 

MW

that that makes that makes

08:41

complete sense did you have anybody else

08:45

that you know because addiction does not

08:49

discriminate? we know that there are many

08:52

many very very successful

08:53

in the world who are in recovery right

08:56

yes that's not a that's not new

08:58

information for us... was there anybody

09:00

that you sort of looked at maybe when

09:03

you were on your way in a sponsor or

09:06

otherwise that you know sort of showed

09:08

you... wow this way of life cannot only

09:11

saved my life but it actually can lead

09:13

me to have success out in the in the

09:15

greater world you know in the material

09:16

professional world? did you know anything...

09:20

did that connection happen for you?

 

MBW

09:23

yes and no so I was told that... so I think

09:27

sponsors are the greatest leaders in the

09:29

world,

09:29

and they lead differently than any other

09:32

leader they lead only through their

09:35

experience and they use actually their

09:38

failures more to show you how they lead

09:40

themselves than they do to actually talk

09:43

about their successes right and it's

09:45

just a very different way to lead and...

09:47

and so my first sponsors name was Chuck

09:50

he's in the book and I talked about a

09:52

time where you know I looked up to him

09:53

and I thought he let me down he's like

09:55

dude if you put me up on a pedestal, I'm

09:56

gonna fall right the heck off like yeah

09:58

like what are you doing I told you this

10:00

and so I think that what he shared with

10:03

me was I could do anything I could be

10:07

anything if I could stay clean... and so he

10:10

showed me how to lead myself and that I

10:12

could fulfill my potential but what I

10:13

will say which is why I'm so passionate

10:15

the work I'm doing... nobody ever told me

10:19

that it would go into a specific segment

10:23

of my life my professional life and

10:26

instead of being a stigma it would be a

10:29

superpower no one told me that right no

10:32

one told me like as an addict we're

10:35

taught hey worker program so you

10:37

neutralized the negative no one told me...

10:39

like when I do my thinks in the morning

10:42

I thank God for my addiction before I

10:44

ever start talking about I would go into

10:47

yeah so so the thing for me is is that...

10:50

at the end of the day no one told me

10:53

this there was no model for me that

10:55

being an addict is better than not being

10:57

an addict when it comes to getting

10:58

dedicated to a process of recovery and

11:00

half need to practice that and having

11:01

gaining a professional advantage and so

11:03

that's why I want to shine that light he

11:05

gave me a general promise

11:07

but I wanted to make a specific promise

 

MW

11:08

yep that make that makes so much sense...

11:12

so, so I think that is probably a really

11:15

good point to shift into your book that

11:18

just launched yesterday so

11:19

congratulations 

 

MBW

yeah thanks man you know

11:21

 

MW

we both have are crossing the threshold

11:24

of being authors and it's definitely a

11:29

it's a... it's a path you have to earn for

11:32

Sure… there's nothing easy about

11:35

navigating the process of getting your

11:37

thoughts down into however many words

11:40

you know your book of my book are you

11:43

know talk to me about -talk to us- about

11:47

what this book delivers 

 

MBW

before I do that

11:51

I want to talk about Marcus Whitney

11:53

delivers when I, before I was writing

11:56

this book you were working on yours, and

11:59

you were inspiring me and I remember

12:01

asking you how did you get through the

12:04

writer's block? because that was

12:05

something that was really hurting me and

12:06

you gave me a great piece of wisdom but

12:08

someone else gave you and you said ah

12:10

you have to write a couple of bad books

12:11

before you write the good one and you

12:13

said that to me in the board room at the

12:14

EC, I'll never forget it and that was

12:17

something that I carried with me

12:18

throughout this entire process... so I want

12:20

to tell you that you you've helped me in

12:22

this journey so this book essentially

12:26

takes all my frustrations with people

12:29

talking about authentic leadership and

12:30

us not having authentic leaders I mean...

12:32

was the last time you heard a politician

12:33

answer a question with I don't know? like

12:36

Never

 

MW

that's a different show 

 

MBW

that is a

12:39

different this whole can of worms too... so

12:41

what the book delivers is a step-by-step

12:44

system that allows you to take the three

12:46

principles that I learned in recovery

12:48

and apply them by creating a mask free

12:53

action card that you only have to

12:56

execute in one minute a day and if you

12:58

do that and it's a step-by-step system

13:01

you don't need to think about anything

13:02

if you do that you will reclaim 500

13:05

hours a year and so people think that's

13:07

outlandish well one of the things I talk

13:08

about in the book is that there are four

13:10

masks that are holding back every

13:12

individual team and organization in this

13:14

world and the first mask is saying yes

13:17

when you could say no we spend 31 hours

13:19

a month

13:20

in meetings that are unnecessary alone

13:22

the second mask is hiding a weakness

13:25

when I was in corporate America I spent

13:27

22 hours trying to figure out how to do

13:28

a pivot table in Microsoft Excel when I

13:31

could have spent 10 minutes asking

13:32

someone for help... the third one is

13:35

avoiding difficult conversations not

13:36

asking for what we need from our boss

13:38

for resources or not negotiating the

13:40

contract with a customer or performance

13:41

managing an employee... and the fourth one

13:44

is holding back your unique perspective

13:45

we've all been in a room with 50 people

13:47

and all 50 brains weren't activated only

13:49

the person at the top spoke about the

13:51

blind spot to the potential innovations

13:53

and time is lost in those areas and

13:56

those four masks, 90% of leaders say they

14:00

wear at work so what we do is we take

14:02

them through a process where they

14:03

identify which mask is holding them back

14:05

and then we apply this system of the

14:07

principles that I learned in recovery to

14:09

give them a step-by-step process to take

14:11

that mask off.

 

MW

man I feel like I'm gonna

14:17

save 500 hours this year just from

14:20

having listened to you over the last one

14:22

minute... that's incredible that you were

14:25

able to distill that you were able to

14:29

steal those principles into quantitative

14:31

story based tips for people... man that's

14:35

just and that's that's really

14:37

straightforward and it is they're

14:38

definitely four things that everybody

14:41

either has struggled with or currently

14:43

does struggle with you know like they

14:44

MIT they may have sort of figured out

14:46

one or two of them but but those those

14:47

four combined you're absolutely right...

14:50

there they're massive time wasters and

14:53

and they also like sell you short you

14:56

know that's sort of the other thing that

14:57

I think is really interesting

14:58

they sell you short from from what

15:00

you're capable of of achieving so wow

15:04

wow that's that's that's incredible

15:07

have you tested out this model with with

15:09

other people 

 

MBW

yeah that's how that's how

15:11

I arrived at it, because what I used to

15:13

do is I would like a company would hire

15:14

me to come speak to them after I sell my

15:16

TED talk and I'll just be like hey dude

15:17

you should do what drug addicts do and

15:19

then like tell him about like crazy

15:21

stories and like expect the change to

15:22

happen... so this has been something I've

15:25

been working on for three years I

15:27

started working on a year before I did

15:29

the TED talk the TED talk was one of the

15:31

manifestations of the work so I've

15:34

just over a thousand leaders... so from the

15:36

boardroom to the mailroom to the class

15:39

room to the living room... large companies

15:42

small companies I've worked companies

15:43

like Google and Global Payments and Dell

15:45

and startups and nonprofits, and I

15:48

created this mask assessment that gives

15:50

you the authenticity percentage that you

15:53

have and then I really started asking a

15:56

bunch of behaviors and the assessment

15:58

used to actually be really complex

16:00

because I thought I had to be complex to

16:01

deliver value and over time I started to

16:04

realize as I started coaching people and

16:06

doing workshops and speaking, that you

16:08

could actually through these assessments

16:09

I think by the time I started assessing

16:10

500 people... I was like crap, there are

16:12

only four masks 

 

MW

hmm Wow 

 

MBW

and you know Don

16:16

Miguel Ruiz wrote The Four Agreements

16:17

and then ten years later he came out

16:18

with a book called the fifth agreement,

16:19

so I might fund the fifth mask somewhere

16:21

you know I'm not perfect, but as I

16:24

started working with people I realized

16:26

that wow I can consolidate this all down

16:29

to four masks... and so what we did was we

16:32

just isolated, that refine the assessment,

16:35

and tested the model and gave it to

16:37

executives at corporations owners of

16:39

companies entrepreneurs like whoever... and

16:42

the thing is that now we've done it for

16:44

a thousand people and they say that they

16:47

resonate with the results and then it

16:48

creates action... one of the things that we

16:51

were taught in recovery is action over

16:54

insight we spent a lot of time thinking

16:56

and talking man, but action is a great

16:59

curator and so that's what I really love

17:03

about recovery so that what we've really

17:04

done is we've simplified it so that

17:06

people can just take that assessment and

17:08

just get off and get off running... I mean

17:11

that we all wear those four masks at

17:12

different times some of us struggle with

17:14

more than others, 

 

MW

so to that end let's

17:18

let's start talking about what we're all

17:21

experiencing today but I want to go back

17:22

to something you started this whole

17:24

conversation with which is... you've worked

17:27

on this you've worked on this project

17:30

for years now,

17:32

you know you've you've put in the work,

17:33

you've done what was necessary to make

17:36

something that was going to really have

17:38

a large impact in the world and then you

17:41

know a pandemic occurred a

17:44

once-in-a-lifetime event occurred and

17:47

the timing is

17:47

such that we are in the thick of it

17:49

right as your book launch has arrived...

17:53

what has that been like for you, and how

17:57

how have you processed that and used,

18:03

used your own process to to be authentic

18:08

in this moment? I mean you know you you

18:11

gave a good example of that in the very

18:12

beginning just talking about some of the

18:13

disappointment and sadness around the

18:15

fact that the launch didn't end up what

18:17

it what you thought it would be... but you

18:18

know there's always sort of that and

18:20

then there's also coming on the other

18:22

side of that that grief in that morning

18:24

and realizing you know the the greater

18:26

opportunity that that you know is a gift

18:29

in that moment you talk a little bit

18:30

about like just what experiences

18:32

feelings you've had through this process?

 

MBW

18:34

yeah so there's a lot of parallels

18:37

between this process and actually drug

18:39

addiction... so I told you that where I am

18:41

now is I arrogantly believe that God

18:44

created the pandemic just for my benefit...

18:52

and I'm not I'm not lacking sensitivity

18:55

to the challenges for everybody I'm

18:56

impacted too but I'm on I'm on the other

18:59

side and one of the things that addicts

19:01

do is we turn crap in a fertilizer and

19:03

and the thing about a pandemic is now

19:05

everybody knows what it's like to be an

19:06

addict...

19:07

we all are being impacted by a disease

19:10

that is outside of our control that is

19:12

isolating us and changing our lives and

19:14

so for me I have practice in this at the

19:19

same time I had never applied it to a

19:21

situation like this... and so in early

19:25

March was going to be the the beginning

19:27

of our promotion window for the book, and

19:29

I've invested the significant amount of

19:31

the money that I made from so my company

19:33

I've got a lot of stuff on the line I

19:34

got employees I got all this stuff... it's

19:37

also my purpose and my mission and

19:38

something I've been dreaming for years...

19:40

and and right when the promotion window

19:44

was gonna start that was the week that

19:48

COVID became real, when the NBA season

19:51

got suspended... also I'm gonna share this

19:54

here, but there was an a-list celebrity

19:57

that saw my TED talk that wanted to help

19:59

me promote my book,

20:00

and they were one of the first people

20:01

that got COVID. and I was actually

20:04

supposed to go visit them, and they were

20:06

gonna help me promote it and in their

20:07

entire life was different... and so I was

20:10

like kind of going wow this is a

20:11

different world and then I get on a call

20:14

with my team and my PR firm they're like,

20:16

okay all the earned media that we lined

20:17

up is all gone we can't even get you

20:20

know coverage on the election let alone

20:23

your book... and and so I was like oh man

20:27

like the promotion window is gone and

20:30

then that weekend, my wife became

20:34

sick, and then within three days I was

20:38

sick, and due to the spectrum of the

20:40

symptoms that we had in front of ours

20:42

it's a health care provider we were very

20:44

fortunate that we were not our lives

20:46

were not threatened but we both came

20:47

down with kovat and I found myself

20:49

wearing a mask with my team... we would be

20:53

on a call and they'd be and I'd be like

20:54

oh it's gonna be fine we're gonna work

20:55

through this blah blah and meanwhile I

20:57

was like trying to be positive but I I

21:01

didn't fully understand what was going

21:02

on because I was cognitively impaired...

21:04

and and I remember being on a walk with

21:07

my wife where it just hit me all at once

21:09

I was like oh I didn't think about

21:11

this all of our revenue was based on

21:14

speaking engagements for this year... I was

21:15

planning on reinvesting everything from

21:17

the book and and so not only are we not

21:20

gonna get her in media to get the book

21:21

out there that was supposed to drive

21:23

speaking engagements all the speaking

21:24

engagements that we had booked are going

21:26

to be gone. all of our revenue is zero I

21:30

didn't realize that, and I felt like a

21:32

fool because it took me time to realize

21:35

that... but when I realized it I

21:38

immediately started applying the three

21:41

principles that I teach in my book so

21:43

practicing rigorous authenticity is

21:45

identifying the mask on your face and

21:48

identifying which one of those four

21:50

you're dealing with and I was hiding a

21:52

weakness... i as the leader the CEO the

21:55

leader of Inc quicker the leader of the

21:57

EC the leader of the mastery movement

21:59

whatever the author of the book I didn't

22:01

know what to do, and I was hiding that...

22:04

and so I was like okay all right number

22:08

two principle number two surrender the

22:09

outcome that is the biggest principle

22:12

though that everybody struggles with

22:14

you're taught to obsess over outcomes

22:15

right, but we learn in recovery and what

22:20

I teach in this book is surrounding the

22:22

outcome is a step by step process that

22:24

you can do to reclaim a massive amount

22:25

of energy, and so for me it's identifying

22:28

what's the outcome I'm scared of... I'm

22:30

scared that the boat the book won't be

22:32

successful won't make an impact I'll

22:34

have to fire my employees I'll to sell

22:36

my house and I'll risk everything, and my

22:38

biggest fear is from I always teach all

22:42

fears come down to physical death or

22:43

social death... my physical death fear was

22:46

I wouldn't be able to provide for my

22:48

family my social death feel was that I

22:50

was a fool for pursuing my passion

22:54

and that anybody that was like that was

22:56

stupid

22:57

great leaders live like drug addicts

22:59

what do you who the hell do you think

23:00

you are? they would be able to say I told

23:02

you so and so I had to identify that

23:05

outcome and the way that we overcome

23:07

that is we split everything down into

23:09

what I can't control what I can control

23:11

and start listing things out... and so

23:13

literally on this card it's like it's I

23:15

feel like it's a stupidest tool ever

23:16

because it's so simple it's literally

23:18

you write it out but I started writing

23:20

out what I couldn't control and I

23:21

realized I can't control what's going on

23:23

outside, I can't control that I was sick,

23:25

I can't control that I can't control any

23:27

of this stuff I can control whether I

23:30

completely redo my financial model to I

23:33

understand if I can keep employees... to

23:35

understand if I can make the mortgage... to

23:38

understand what can I do to actually get

23:40

this book in people's hands to make an

23:42

impact? and shifting from can't control

23:45

to can't control one of the things that

23:47

I talk about is if you can get rid of

23:49

everything that you can't control and

23:51

you focus exclusively on your “can't

23:52

control” reach you reclaim so much energy

23:54

that you start identifying uncomfortable

23:56

work that you have not been willing to

23:58

Do… I found my uncomfortable work and

24:01

you're gonna laugh at this and it was

24:02

it's stupid

24:04

in some ways building this movement I

24:08

had been thinking about building it

24:11

through the lens of scale because I

24:13

built a software company and then I

24:14

helped software companies build... and so I

24:17

wasn't teaching people this process once

24:20

I started promoting the book… I

24:22

wasn't actually executing what was in my

24:24

freaking book…

 

MW

I get it… I

24:27

get it man 

 

MBW

I started executing it and

24:30

then you know what? less people are gonna

24:32

buy the book to this week and more

24:35

people's lives are gonna be impacted

24:36

because I actually started doing it and

24:38

that was my uncomfortable work, because I

24:40

was so scared of actually helping people

24:41

and then being scared of having so many

24:43

people that want help that I couldn't

24:44

scale and do it I stopped that I just

24:46

started helping people, and I swear turn

24:48

the frown upside down opportunity start

24:51

showing up I can't believe I just said

24:52

frown upside down

24:53

opportunities start showing up and and

24:56

now like I now I see a future for an

24:59

even stronger movement... I see a future

25:02

for doing virtual speaking so that I

25:03

don't have to be away from my family... I

25:05

see all these wonderful opportunities

25:07

but I had to go through the process

25:08

myself and even recently at one of my

25:12

employees was like “you know, I waited two

25:14

weeks for you to tell me what we were

25:15

gonna do, I wish you had just told me

25:16

that you were working on it and you didn't

25:18

Know… because I'm trying to plan for

25:21

my personal finances and I'm reading the

25:22

news while you're trying to work it out...

25:24

and I was like oh dude this stuff

25:26

is real and I got to do it so that's

25:28

that was a that's recent 

 

MW

holy cow man

25:31

that is a lot that is a lot I feel a lot

25:37

of what you just said I can we talk... can

25:42

we just dig into one thing that you'd

25:44

that you you breeze past but I want to

25:46

drill down into there's a bit of the

25:49

survivor's guilt? because that that's

25:52

in there you know you talked a lot about

25:54

the loss, but also we're all dealing

25:59

with relative levels of loss right 

26:03

and I think those of us who still have

26:07

homes and haven't missed meals and, you

26:10

know, are fortunate enough to even be

26:11

able to launch a book even if it's not

26:13

the ideal environment for us right you

26:16

know what I mean there's there's

26:18

something weird about all this... right?

26:21

there's something weird about being able

26:24

to do this when you know so many other

26:26

people are affected at much more

26:30

fundamental levels... and you know we're

26:33

talking about physical death or or

26:37

commercial death you know just in terms

26:38

of like food clothing shelter stuff

26:41

you know... how has it been for you

26:43

processing that, and and and and how and

26:46

how do you how do you associate that in

26:51

the four mask paradigm?

 

MBW

 yeah so it's so

26:56

basically I have two different filters

26:59

that I'm wearing at the same time... the

27:01

first one is I'm grateful that I have

27:03

clean food clean water clean air and

27:06

shelter like I am grateful for that and

27:09

I know that anything above that is gravy

27:11

I also know I was supposed to be dead by

27:12

30 and I'm playing with house money ,so I

27:16

can always go to that place and go you

27:17

know what I'm lucky... at the same time

27:20

pain is relative and I had an

27:23

expectation to worry as much about the

27:26

things I've worried about when I was on

27:27

the street using, and I had this thing I

27:29

poured all his time into and I had to

27:31

deal with the loss of it not working the

27:33

way that I thought. and one of the really

27:36

cool things about survivor's guilt

27:37

or not cool thing but I have a lot of

27:39

experience with survivor's guilt because

27:41

any one of us that are in recovery for

27:43

every one of us there's probably ten

27:46

other people that aren't... and so I

27:49

remember even talking about getting a

27:53

job at Dell, or starting my company, I

27:56

felt guilt talking about that around my

27:59

friends and recovery especially ones

28:01

that were just in off the street the

28:02

ones that were had to get their sheets

28:04

sign to stay out of jail…  like whatever

28:05

it is and so I've really had to learn

28:08

that I can have both filters at the same

28:11

time and what end in the for masks like

28:13

I think it comes down to a unique

28:15

perspective I think that those of us

28:18

that are fortunate enough to worry about

28:21

things that are greater than shelter

28:23

food and water and health I think that,

28:26

for me at least I feel the fear of

28:28

talking about this stuff I feel the fear

28:31

of what people will think that I'm not

28:32

I'm not toeing the party line on the

28:35

reality and I'll be called out for XY

28:37

and Z…  but but pain is relative it's a

28:40

real thing it's why you see successful

28:42

athletes or CEOs take themselves out.

28:45

they have everything that would you know

28:47

they really want in the world but they

28:49

take themselves out we sell all kinds of

28:51

stuff and so I think for me going

28:54

through this

28:54

no I have a lot of friends in recovery

28:56

that aren't worried about a book they're

28:58

worried about a job they're worried

28:59

about a paycheck they're worried about

29:00

unemployment and one of the really cool

29:03

things about talking to them is my buddy

29:05

Toby, he's sitting there going on

29:08

unemployment worried about all this

29:09

stuff but he's still supporting me

29:10

through my loss of or my challenges of

29:14

how do I deal with this pandemic as it

29:16

relates to the book... because we both know

29:18

it goes unsaid but we both know that

29:21

we're both just lucky to be having this

29:22

conversation... and I think as long as we

29:25

can have empathy for both our past

29:28

selves that's grateful for the basics

29:29

that we have in our life today and for

29:31

what everybody else is going through, I

29:32

think that at the same time I should be

29:34

able to have my you know hold up my

29:36

unique perspective and talk about the

29:38

more advanced challenges that I'm lucky

29:40

enough to have because I'm not the only

29:41

one going through them.

 

MW

dude thank you

29:45

for thank you for sharing that I that's

29:47

um that's been one of the underlying

29:51

difficulties for me over, really, this

29:56

entire time... it was very clear to me

29:57

early on that this was going to be

29:59

devastating at an economic level

30:01

I knew I was just as vulnerable as

30:03

anybody else was at least in the

30:05

beginning on the health side of things

30:06

when it wasn't sure you know I wasn't

30:08

sure if I was exposed to it... but

30:09

economically you know I knew it was a

30:11

timing issue you know for me one of the

30:13

things that was that was most clear

30:14

about that was I'm on the board of the

30:18

Nashville convention Visitors

30:19

Corporation, and we had a board meeting

30:22

and sort of running through the numbers

30:24

of how how much this had impacted the

30:26

hospitality industry and you know my 20

30:29

years ago when I moved here, I waited

30:31

tables. that was you know that was the

30:34

the free market safety net that that is

30:37

responsible for Marcus Whitney. right you

30:40

know like if that wasn't there I don't I

30:42

don't know what happens to me and you

30:44

know quite frankly this is just a matter

30:46

of timing

30:46

I'm just 20 years lucky you know what I

30:49

mean 

yeah you know I so you know 

 

MBW

that's

30:52

a great way to look at it 

MW

yeah when I

30:53

when I hear about the when I hear about

30:56

the numbers in the devastation it does I

30:58

do have a have a sense of guilt so you

31:00

know your perspective was super helpful

31:01

to me so thank you for that man 

 

MBW

yeah dude

 

MW

31:04

alright that's that's all the time we have

31:06

for today where can people find

31:08

your book I'm gonna promote your socials

31:10

well where can people find your book?

 

MBW

31:11

greatleaderbook.com or in all the

31:14

major retailers 

 

MW

awesome go out there get

31:17

this book support this this this

31:19

incredible human being good friend of

31:20

mine Mike thanks for being here and

31:22

doing the show you can find Michael

31:25

everywhere online

31:26

Michael Brody-Waite Mike Brody wait

31:28

here's all his socials so check this guy

31:31

out follow him support him his mission

31:33

is really really important I think can

31:35

help a lot of people as always please

31:38

subscribe to my podcast if you think

31:39

about it you can find me on Apple

31:42

podcast Google podcasts Spotify I Heart

31:45

Radio SoundCloud on and on and on and of

31:48

course thank you for watching the show

31:50

whether you're catching it on the replay

31:51

or you're watching it live I appreciate

31:53

you you can find me on Instagram

31:54

Facebook Twitter Linkedin YouTube even

31:57

twitch now which I don't have up here

31:59

but definitely appreciate your time your

32:02

energy it means a lot to me that you're

32:04

spending time with us here today and I

32:06

look forward to seeing you tomorrow for

32:09

yet another episode of Marcus Whitney

32:10

live until then let's building normal

32:13

y'all peace awesome

32:16

[Music]

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