Finding Sanctuary With Animals – Marcus Whitney LIVE with Ellie Laks and Jay Weiner of The Gentle Barn
Today's guests on #MWL are Ellie and Jay from The Gentle Barn. We discuss their mission to bring people closer to nature and create a more peaceful world in the process. We also talk about Ellie's book “My Gentle Barn" and innovating in the face of COVID-19.
Where to watch live:
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https://linkedin.com/in/marcuswhitney
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MW
happy Wednesday I am happy to be here
not talking about my book yesterday was
a totally exhausting day getting the
book launched just it felt like an
18-hour day but it was a great day and
I've been really excited to have our
guests on today a good friend of mine
marsh Missoula who I had on the old
version of my show the creative power
hour she was one of my guides into the
the world of being plant-based and she
is like a fierce warrior for animals and
animal rights and just loving and caring
for animals and so I said Marcia you
know some incredible people can you
please recommend some people for the
show and she put together a list and the
list is fantastic and this was like the
you guys were at the top of the list so
I'm super excited to have our guests on
today these folks are the the founder
and I guess co-conspirator leaders of
the Gentle Barn which is just a
fantastic organization that is
nationwide at this point and they've
written a book and they're they're
innovators entrepreneurs and and lovers
of people and animals so without further
ado let me please introduce Ellie lacks
the founder of gentle born Ellie
EL
hi
thank you for having us
MW
thank you so
much
and j.j I actually don't know what what
to call you like because I don't like
you you joined afterwards but you're
you're like definitely knee-deep in it
now
J
yeah it's been 18 years I go by
co-founder co-founder
MW
okay okay it makes
sense makes sense well look thank you
both so much for for being here and
Ellie you know maybe we'll just start
with you if you wouldn't mind telling
what the what the genesis of the gentle
born was
EL
sure absolutely
the gentleman was an idea that I had
since I was seven years old just a
little kid there were two things that
were happening in my childhood when I
was small number one there was some
loneliness going on I didn't feel like I
fit in with other people there was some
abuse going on in my childhood and I
grew up in st. Louis actually and there
was always lakes and woods and nature
surrounding me and so that's where I
would go when I needed sanctuary and it
was the animals in the woods that kind
of healed me and kept me somewhat sane
as I went through the challenges of my
childhood the animals were my friends my
healers my teachers and they inspired me
to keep going so my love affair for
animals grew deeper with every day and
what I noticed was the clarity with
which I saw animals to be my healers
teachers and friends that we were all
the same we just looked different I
noticed that that was inside me but the
people around me didn't see animals the
same way they saw animals as commodities
as owned objects that you could throw
away or do with them what you wanted and
so that divide got me thinking you know
why why do I see animals so clearly but
those around me cannot see them at all
and so from the time I was seven I would
tell anyone would that would listen I
would say you'll see when I grow up I'll
have a huge place full of animals and
I'll show the world how beautiful they
are but not stayed a dream inside of me
because I didn't know how to start a
non-profit and I didn't know what the
first steps would be and so in school I
would sit in doodle animals til the desk
the notebook and my arms were covered in
them and I would go to sleep each night
visioning what animals I would get to
love and what the general barn would
smell and feel like when I was older so
it was a place that I lived in in my
mind but I didn't know how to make it a
reality until a little bit more than
twenty years ago I was living as a young
adult in Los Angeles driving an errand
one
and I saw a petting zoo I'd never seen
before and so I pulled over just to be
nosy and I what I found there was a lot
of a neglect and abuse and animals that
were suffering but what I also found
there was that the petting zoo was full
of people that were busy smiling and
skipping and posing for pictures and not
one of them could see the suffering in
front of them so there it was again
this divide where I could see the
suffering and the cries for help in
those animals so clearly but none of the
other humans could and so there was that
divide again and I said to myself I got
to get out of here this was crazy and I
was running for the door as fast as I
could and blocking the exit was a very
very old goat that looked like she was
about to keel over any second and she
looked me in the eyes she asked me for
help and she stopped me in my tracks and
I looked back at her and I said well I
have a little house with a half acre
backyard I guess I could bring home a
goat and I went to find the owner and I
said can I have her and she said no and
I said well I'm gonna stay here till you
say yes and I stayed there for 12 days
won't until finally on the 13th day she
said take the goat and get the heck out
of here and I brought her home found a
mobile vet to come and heal her remove
her tumors trim her overgrown toenails
teach me how to massage her deformed leg
so she could walk again and it was the
greatest feeling I've ever had in my
life I knew right then and there that
that was what I was born to do and so
after healing Mary the goat I went back
to the petting zoo for more animals
because the authorities said they
couldn't help the animals and I ended up
taking a whole barnyard full of animals
home fix them one by one with the mobile
that looked out my window one day to a
backyard that was now full of animals
and said holy cow I just started my
dream and that was 20 years ago
MW
Wow that is an amazing amazing story so
so Jay what what is your introduction
into this world did you to grow up with
this same sort of ability to to
understand the animals
J
yeah you know Ellie and I had very
similar you know backgrounds where we
both grew up on the East Coast we both
grew up in areas you know near the woods
and you know when I when I first was
kind of going through the abuses and
things like that that happened very
similarly in my life that did with Ellie
and we lived very parallel lives we
don't have enough time in this show to
tell you all about that but we lived
very parallel lives with abuse and
neglect and and difficult childhoods
animals saved us and and saved me and I
you know I was always connected to them
i i rode horses as a young guy we don't
do that anymore but but you know rode
horses and was connected to large
animals and dogs and you know things
like that animals like that that were
part of the saving of my life really and
you know she's always looking for things
to do that were like that and and that's
kind of how i ended up you know at the
gentle born my my daughter went to
volunteer at the Gentle Barn
nineteen years ago Wow and you know when
you hear that story that Ellie just told
and you connect with what's going on at
the Gentle Barn and the healing that's
not only happening for the animals but
also for people it just drew me in and
and I dedicated my life to it now
MW
Wow. So
so Ellie backed back to you. You and Jay
get together and your your… where
where are you based at this at this time?
I mean, not right now, but you know when
you and Jay started really working
together?
EL
Yeah so um Jay came in to
volunteer at the Gentle Barn and it was
still located in that little half acre
backyard in the San Fernando Valley in
Los Angeles. And I had a handful of
animals. I had you know a couple of
horses, a couple cows, a few pigs, and
chickens, and turkeys, a bunch of dogs all
rescued from severe abuse and neglect.
And he came in and he helped me in the
barnyard.
He helped me clean and feed the animals.
He helped round up some produce from
some local Whole Foods. But
I found out that he had an extensive
corporate background, so then he helped
me in the office, set up a website with a
donate button. He set up our first
fundraiser. He got on the board of
directors. And this took about a year
where we became fast friends. He got more
and more deeply involved in the Gentle
Barn, and a year later we realized we had
fallen in love.
MW
Wow that's amazing.
EL
So now, so now Jay
and I run the Gentle Barn together and
he took me from a half acre backyard and
a handful of animals to where we're
located today four years later. We are
now in Santa Clarita California. We have
a five acre property, and just minutes up
the road we have another 15 acre
property which is where most of our
larger animals live, and it's our healing
center as well. And then five years ago,
we branched off into Tennessee. So we're
located now in Nashville. And almost
three years ago, we started a general
barn in St. Louis. So now we're in three
locations and looking for the fourth .
MW
Wow
that's that's incredible. Jay since since
you were the person who came in with the
the business background -at this point
you're both business people, I get that-
but you know when you came in and you
were sitting on the board and pulling
things together -you know this is also 19
years ago- was there a blueprint for how
to do this kind of business? I mean I'm
I'm curious as to that, you know I know
about zoos and and and petting zoos... but
like what you were trying to do, did you
just have to sort of make this stuff up
as you went along?
J
Yeah I mean obviously
we're a nonprofit organization, so there
are for sure other nonprofit
organizations. But as far as the
sanctuary, I mean if there weren't... now we
have hundreds of sanctuaries all over
the place. But we were really OG, you know.
We were we were, back in the day, we were
just we were just doing it. And and we
didn't know anybody. And you know there
were another couple large ones, but they
were so far away, and we would sometimes
call for help and and they'd be like you
know... we had a cow rescue that we did and
they were calves that came in very sick,
and we said you know what do we do? You
know how do we heal these guys? And they
were like you know prepare for them to
die. You know and it's like they just
didn't have the information, or the
knowledge, or the ability to do what they
to instruct us. And so yeah we... I
mean we really did have to you know do
the building blocks you know. I didn't
you know I didn't have nonprofit
experience. I mean my my family -my
parents had nonprofit experience and I
witnessed it as a child- but you know I
didn't have any formal training. I just
knew sales and marketing and-and-and
basic business acumen and just went went
with it you know. And we did our best you
know.
MW
so so Ellie this is a this is a
business that has benefits for everybody
who sort of touches it right so if
you're if you're a donor obviously you
get to feel really good because you're
you're putting your money to work in a
way that's going to you know allow these
animals to be loved and cared for and
obviously you get to work there it's
probably like a dream because you know
there aren't that many places where you
get to work where you get to be sort of
one with nature and one with animals and
where the respect for humans and animals
is at the same level talk to me about
the experience for people who visit you
know because we were talking about
setting up a time for me and my family
to come visit the one here in Tennessee
what what is the experience for people
who visit and how has it been growing
the Gentle Barn across the country now
you're looking for your fourth you know
location what what is what can someone
expect if they come to visit a gentle
barn
EL
You know, when you think of the
Gentle Barn -in its very name- you think
of a place that is sanctuary to animals.
But the truth is that the Gentle Barn is
sanctuary to humans as well.
We host school field trips, private tours.
We’re open to the public on Sundays, and
we host groups of at-risk, inner-city and
special needs children. And it's a place
of healing for people as well as animals.
And the very experience of coming to the
Gentle Barn is something that you
really have to experience to fully know
what I'm talking about.
There is an energy -a healing, loving
energy- on the property that you can feel
the minute you get out of your car. It's
just on the land. It's just the energy
that's there on the land, and you can
feel it when your feet touch the earth.
You exhale. You feel a little lighter. You
feel a little brighter, and it starts you
off. Then you can come and hug our cows,
and for people who have never done this,
I like to say that we haven't lived ‘til
we've hugged a cow and cuddled its fur.
It’s the most wonderful thing in the world. Cows are these giant fuzzy creatures
with teddy bear ears, and long eyelashes,
and huge eyes that bare deep into your
soul. And you can come over to these
giant creatures, and they will hold still
for you while you can wrap your arms
around them, put your faces on them, close
your eyes, and feel their love. It is like
the best mom hug you can ever get, and it
just opens your heart. It connects you to
every living being. It is
absolutely beautiful. And then from there,
we can... people can feed the horses and
again stand in front of giant creatures,
and open your hands and see how gentle
they are. And you feel brave, and
courageous, and connected. It's wonderful
and humble all at the same time. And then
you can go to our smaller barnyards
where you can hold chickens as they fall
asleep in your arms. You can give pigs
tummy rubs as they roll over and grunt
thank-yous. You can sit on the ground in
front of our female turkeys and cuddle
them as they fall asleep in your laps.
It's just wonderful, and you get to
practice courage and empathy all at the
same time. You get to connect with
creatures that look so different, and the
takeaway is that no matter what we look
like, we're all the same. And it's life
changing. It connects people to animals
certainly -and to nature- but it also
connects people right back to themselves
and to who they are and the goodness and
love inside of themselves. And people
leave changed.
MW
that's that's so powerful
Jay I I said before we we came on that I
didn't want to spend a lot of time
talking about it but I did want to talk
about the phenomenon that was Tiger king
before coronavirus
you know we're not really talking about
it that much now but for many people
that were you know totally focused on
technology the world sort of everything
that the Gentle Barn is trying to give
you an escape and a reprieve from right
a lot of people didn't know they don't
even know about sanctuaries like they
may have heard about the elephant
sanctuary but like that might be the end
of it you know and they just sort of
think it's a place where elephants are
rescued and saved you know they don't
know that these things exist and then we
have this phenomenon that is this this
blockbuster show but is obviously like
sort of its kind of dirt TV right you
know what I mean it's like let's let's
look at the disaster of humans that are
troubled and and then how that enter it
you know interfaces with animals you
know I'm sure that the gentle part is
not the only sanctuary out there at this
point it is probably a much larger group
probably a community of leaders you know
how did you know you can tell me it
didn't matter at all but how did it feel
to be you know doing the work that
you're doing and that come out and just
just how did that feel I'm just I'm just
interested in what what
J
it's
entertainment you know I mean it's
entertainment it's it's it's
exploitation it's it's mistreatment of
animals it's it's inappropriate behavior
just morally I think people sometimes
get a kick out of watching things like
that and and it was different and I
think that's why it you know it the
things that are different and kooky on
the different kinds of platforms that we
have are what draw attention and and I
think that that's simply what that was
and and you know I I think the things
that that were done in that show I
didn't really watch it but I know about
it and I've seen you know clips of it
are horrendous and and and and it's just
it's it's like it's kind of a sign of
what people are today sometimes you know
like you're really you're willing to
watch that really you know and I guess
as a sanctuary we sort of fall back on
like God well gosh we've been doing this
for 20 years you know we really need
your support here
and we really want you to see what we're
doing because we're doing it in the name
of the animal and we're doing it in that
direction it's kind of you mentioned I
think petting zoo earlier things like
that the difference between what we do
and what say a sanction a petting zoo or
you know that kind of show you know
represents is is simply about money you
know it's about money it's about
exploitation it's about popularity it's
about you know selfishness it's it's all
of those things greed what we're trying
to do on this side is healing health you
know information to people about how
beautiful our animals are and how
they're the same how we're all the same
and how we all have this ability to be
connected and so you know connection and
and and talking about them and and you
know sure there's some parts of what we
do that are a little bit you know self
you know promoting but it's only because
we want to get the information out there
not because Ellie or I have any reason
to talk about ourselves you know we just
really want people to understand you
know and we're in an environment and in
a world right now where we all have to
start really understanding how connected
we are
MW
yeah I mean I just I just want to
say well thank you for for thank you for
responding to the question there's
nothing that I've gotten in this
conversation that looked that looked
sounded or more importantly felt at all
like the two episodes of that show that
I saw you know I saw like one of the
first episodes and then I saw like the
last episode and it's just like what an
absolute disaster this this whole thing
is like I can't give that what you know
I'm a creator I just can't I can't
consume that much and I definitely am
NOT gonna consume a whole season of that
it's just not it doesn't give me
anything
J
we're storytellers you know I
mean we're trying to tell a story you
know that's the amazing part about the
general bar that's what we do what we do
is we we share the stories of the
animals and you know we're just conduits
you know we're walking you through what
we have to show if you watch any of our
our you know videos like on YouTube or
whatever that's what you'll see you know
what we're trying to be entertaining it
in a way that invites people to learn
MW
that's probably a really good set
way le to talk about your book as a
storyteller tell us about your book
EL
Sure
yeah my book starts in my childhood
understanding what was going on for me
the abuses the loneliness all the ways
that animals saved my life many many
many times in my childhood and how it
turned into me wanting to return the
favor by saving their lives it's about
me getting very very lost and finally
owning Who I am
owning my connections to animals and
saving them in really a way to save
myself it's about starting the gentle
barn all the hurdles it's about meeting
Jay and our beautiful love story it's
about the founding animals of the gentle
barn that taught us everything that we
know it's about those first groups of
children that came out and found
themselves in the barnyard it's a book
that inspires people to live their
dreams no matter what they are it's a
love story that's wonderful and
entertaining to read and it's chock-full
of animals and how they make us a better
human being every day and all their
messages to the rest of us and in a time
in the America in the human history
where we need hope and inspiration more
than any other time it's a good read and
and I hope that it inspires people to
live their dreams and shine their light
and be who they truly are because that's
what I had to learn and overcome through
my book and through my story
MW
love it my
Gentle Barn everyone go out pick it up
wherever you you buy your books and
that's actually another great segue you
guys are so good at this
haha that's another great segue to talk
and Ellie I'm gonna stick with you and
then circle back to Jay another great
segue to talk about what it's like
running a sanctuary with multiple
locations in the middle of a pandemic
you know on one hand it's outdoors and
so you know when we're trying to
practice social distancing certainly
outdoors are better than indoors and
people are looking for things to do
anything to do people are getting really
you know stir-crazy and tons of cabin
fever
but what is you know what has it been
like over the last hundred and twenty
days for you all you know operating the
Gentle Barn with with the restrictions
that are happening
EL
yeah I think that
we're really really lucky like you said
to have an outdoor barnyard full of
animals that are living their bliss
every single day and they uplift us my
heart really goes out to people that are
stuck in apartments I don't know what I
would do you know we're on a five acre
property and we could walk out of our
house and be coated safe and be able to
rub pig bellies and see our animals
absolutely thriving and it lifts our
spirits but you know the work that we do
here at the Gentle Barn the last 20
years is using the stories and the
interactions of the animals to get in
front of people and so we're we're doing
multiple school field trips every single
day we're open to the public we're doing
private tours we're visiting with donors
from all over the world and so all of a
sudden 120 days ago that all came to a
screeching halt and so we had to very
very quickly roll with the punches and
bring everything that we do virtually so
we very quickly established virtual
tours virtual school field trips my
gentle classroom which was teaching
science standards out with the animals
Wow
yeah it was incredible and we're putting
together in video format so we can sell
it all over the world for for everyone
to share it was it was remarkable we're
gonna be doing a virtual summer camp
here momentarily and we had never done
those things before but what happened
what happened before Coe bid was that
all our visitors we here in California
we would get hundreds and hundreds of
visitors even just on a Sunday and those
visitors would bring with them donations
that would enable us to care for the
animals and keep us strong to bring in
new animals when that came to a
screeching halt all of a sudden those
funds stopped with them and we realized
oh my god are we gonna even be able to
survive this financially and so bringing
everything virtual not only allowed us
to continue our mission
getting in front of people and opening
their hearts and connecting them to this
beautiful world of animals but it also
enabled us to continue fundraising and
connecting with the community so we can
continue as an organization and I'm very
very proud to say that so far we've been
able to retain all our staff well
because it's not just the animals that
are counting on us our staff and their
families are counting on us as well and
to let them go then their families would
be destitute so we were able to keep all
our staff supporting their families we
were able to not only continue caring
for our animals but an interesting thing
happened during koban 19 which is
slaughterhouses were shutting down and
so farmers wanted to get rid of all
their animals and so there was a huge
influx of sending animals to the
slaughterhouses that were pregnant and
they were giving birth on the kill floor
and so we ended up rescuing more animals
than normal in a short span of time
during Koated than other times with the
slaughterhouses calling us saying we've
got all these animals giving birth come
and get them
and so we were able to bring in seven
cows with their babies heal their bodies
they were very very sick and heal their
hearts and teach them to trust people
and so we've been very very busy during
COBIT and our fundraising staff led by
Jay had been very very busy fundraising
and asking our donors to police support
us through this hard time so that we can
get to the other side of it and so far
so good we're very grateful
MW
well I just
want to say I could owes to you for just
not sitting back and being look I I'm
with you for people who are locked up in
a space where they can't get fresh air
they can't get around you you know I
have my family in my home you you you
know you have your family I've I've just
thought about how much I am sad for
people who are by themselves and lonely
in this moment but there is there is
another thing which is you you didn't
just look at the decrease in revenue you
you took you took the opportunity to
create all these new virtual versions of
everything that you've done I mean you
didn't just say one thing I mean you've
done virtual classrooms and virtual
tours and all these things and to me
it's like that same spirit that has
driven you to grow grow the business
grow the sanctuaries across the country
get the book I just wrote a book it's
super hard so to write the book you know
it's like you're using that same energy
to keep your enterprise alive and and
turning virtual which one when the world
does open back up at some point for good
you'll now have both the in-person thing
plus the virtual thing you know which
will be incredible it will have been an
asset so I just think
MW
that's that's
that's so so awesome
Jay just back to
you because you you mentioned a new
innovation that you all just just came
up with that you've rolled out in
California and will shortly be rolling
out in in in your other locations. Can
you talk about that real quick?
J
Sure, and
just two seconds to to say to you that
yesterday -every day I send an
inspirational quote our team- and I
just wanted to say that my my message to
them yesterday was how impressed I am
with with us. With our team. With with
that adaptation that we had to do, and
that we didn't just sit back and fold,
and fail, you know. That we we all you
know came together and and figured out
these innovative ways and experiential
ideas and things like that which leads
to what we're about to do now which is
our Gentle Drive Through. It's really
exciting. We actually... the first week we
did for our season pass holders because
they've been so generous to us to not
cancel. I mean like, that they're they
can't come here, and they can't be a part
of the organization in a physical way.
And that's why you have a season pass.
But these amazing people not only held
on to their season passes, but renewed
them. And and and really like stayed by
and and stood behind us. So we felt
obligated to them to you know thank them
by giving them the first experience. And
basically what it is is we
are open every Sunday. You go on the
website and you can book it. And you get
to come to the Gentle Barn and have a
drive through immersive experience. And
you come on the property and you get to
see inside of our... we have, in California
we have it. In Tennessee it's about to
start
next weekend, not this coming weekend.
but the next weekend. And and in
Missouri the same. And but here you get
to go to our first proper... our second
property up the road and drive and see
our Healing Center, and the animals that
are in there that are quarantined. Which
is something we would never be able to
do had we been on foot because we can't
risk people transmitting the disease
from one animal to the other and things
like that. So you can drive
by them and see them, and have lunch in
front of the cow pasture. Then drive down
to the second property, and they get to
drive through the property. And there's
all kinds of different experiences they
get to have one of the most amazing
-which is something we do with every
group that ever comes here- is we have
people interact with our wishing well.
And so they get to write their wish for
the world -and for the planet- on their
rock. And and these people people who
come to the Gentle Barn they're they're
deep people you know. They’re very connected,
deep people, and and the some of the
things that they're writing and things
that they're saying are just absolutely
amazing. And this experience, you know, you
get lunch included, and popcorn, and and
you know you get to see all the animals
and hear their stories. It's just it's
just special. It's just really amazing.
MW
it
that that sounds incredible and and I'll
have to follow up with you afterwards to
get the information for when the
Tennessee one opens up that Marsha
Marsha is a big part of the planning of
that oh good no because she's an
incredible event planner
yeah she's incredible that she's been
very helpful in setting up the Tennessee
location and getting it ready to roll
and we're really excited about it
awesome so you know as we discussed a
half-hour goes fast and we're already at
the end but Ellie just leave us with
maybe just just one final note of
inspiration for everybody and also where
people what people can do to support the
Gentle Barn today
yeah so to get involved it's super easy
you could look for the Gentle Barn on
YouTube Facebook Twitter and Instagram
you can check out our website gentle
barn org and read more about our beliefs
and the animals and the work that we do
with children you can sponsor an animal
and pay a nominal donation each month to
get behind the scenes regularly emailed
updates of how that animal is doing and
brand new pictures each month or you can
donate for a bale of hay we have our hay
campaign coming up and you can donate
for a bale of hay our sponsor a bale of
hay every month and then participate in
feeding the animals and supporting the
almost 200 animals that we have think
very and in closing I would like to say
the following I would like to tell
people we have survived as a humanity
for the last several hundred years on
the notion of enslavement exploitation
and dominating others that's you know
and you can see it even in our language
you know the early bird gets the worm
you gotten the fittest survive we have
not been trained or taught to learn to
live as a society to lift each other up
and to live in community we have been
trained to compete to push others down
to fight for what we want and to exploit
others human beings and animals and I
think it is high time with what we're
seeing in our environment we're seeing
the forests being depleted we're seeing
the oceans being polluted we're seeing
species go extinct every day we're
seeing suffering and injustice in our
communities we're seeing illness in our
bodies the solution to all of that is we
need a kinder humanity we need to raise
our children to have reverence for
Mother Earth respect and community with
animals and to live with other humans to
lift each other up and community to love
one another to be kinder and more
compassionate to one another and I think
that when we do that when we create a
community that is not built on
enslavement but rather lifting each
other up every single member of the
planet nature animals and humans alike
will all thrive and benefit and it will
rid our bodies of illness it will free
the animals from their cages and it will
cause the environment and the mother
earth to thrive and flourish and be home
to us for many many many more centuries
to come and so I kind of invite all of
you to check out the Gentle Barn come
for a gentle drive through or come to
hug a cow experience the love that you
have waiting inside of you and expand it
out to all around you and if we all do
that this could be a really really
beautiful world and I hold the picture
of that world in my mind every day and
we get closer to it every day I feel
powerful powerful Wow thank you so much
Ellie and Jay you can follow them gentle
barn org at the gentle branagh on
instagram The Gentle Barn Facebook I
know you had to be moved by that I was
moved thank you both so much for
spending the time today to share your
background your history your mission
your vision your purpose your love story
it's all incredibly inspiring and ya
know thank you so much my book came out
yesterday create new orchestrate we we
hit number one on Amazon and a bunch of
different categories so thanks everybody
for all your support out there and keep
it moving the podcast Marcus Whitney's
audio universe wherever you get your
podcast it's there go subscribe and
follow me everywhere online at Marcus
Whitney that is it I will be back
tomorrow with another episode thank you
so much and I will see you next time
let's build the new normal y'all