Today's guests on #MWL are Ellie and Jay from The Gentle Barn. We discuss their mission to bring people closer to nature and create a more peaceful world in the process. We also talk about Ellie's book “My Gentle Barn" and innovating in the face of COVID-19.

Where to watch live:

The Gentle Barn - Guest Socials
Get The Full Episode Transcription


happy Wednesday I am happy to be here

not talking about my book yesterday was

a totally exhausting day getting the

book launched just it felt like an

18-hour day but it was a great day and

I've been really excited to have our

guests on today a good friend of mine

marsh Missoula who I had on the old

version of my show the creative power

hour she was one of my guides into the

the world of being plant-based and she

is like a fierce warrior for animals and

animal rights and just loving and caring

for animals and so I said Marcia you

know some incredible people can you

please recommend some people for the

show and she put together a list and the

list is fantastic and this was like the

you guys were at the top of the list so

I'm super excited to have our guests on

today these folks are the the founder

and I guess co-conspirator leaders of

the Gentle Barn which is just a

fantastic organization that is

nationwide at this point and they've

written a book and they're they're

innovators entrepreneurs and and lovers

of people and animals so without further

ado let me please introduce Ellie lacks

the founder of gentle born Ellie 




thank you for having us 



thank you so


and j.j I actually don't know what what

to call you like because I don't like

you you joined afterwards but you're

you're like definitely knee-deep in it




yeah it's been 18 years I go by

co-founder co-founder 



okay okay it makes

sense makes sense well look thank you

both so much for for being here and

Ellie you know maybe we'll just start

with you if you wouldn't mind telling

what the what the genesis of the gentle

born was 



sure absolutely

the gentleman was an idea that I had

since I was seven years old just a

little kid there were two things that

were happening in my childhood when I

was small number one there was some

loneliness going on I didn't feel like I

fit in with other people there was some

abuse going on in my childhood and I

grew up in st. Louis actually and there

was always lakes and woods and nature

surrounding me and so that's where I

would go when I needed sanctuary and it

was the animals in the woods that kind

of healed me and kept me somewhat sane

as I went through the challenges of my

childhood the animals were my friends my

healers my teachers and they inspired me

to keep going so my love affair for

animals grew deeper with every day and

what I noticed was the clarity with

which I saw animals to be my healers

teachers and friends that we were all

the same we just looked different I

noticed that that was inside me but the

people around me didn't see animals the

same way they saw animals as commodities

as owned objects that you could throw

away or do with them what you wanted and

so that divide got me thinking you know

why why do I see animals so clearly but

those around me cannot see them at all

and so from the time I was seven I would

tell anyone would that would listen I

would say you'll see when I grow up I'll

have a huge place full of animals and

I'll show the world how beautiful they

are but not stayed a dream inside of me

because I didn't know how to start a

non-profit and I didn't know what the

first steps would be and so in school I

would sit in doodle animals til the desk

the notebook and my arms were covered in

them and I would go to sleep each night

visioning what animals I would get to

love and what the general barn would

smell and feel like when I was older so

it was a place that I lived in in my

mind but I didn't know how to make it a

reality until a little bit more than

twenty years ago I was living as a young

adult in Los Angeles driving an errand


and I saw a petting zoo I'd never seen

before and so I pulled over just to be

nosy and I what I found there was a lot

of a neglect and abuse and animals that

were suffering but what I also found

there was that the petting zoo was full

of people that were busy smiling and

skipping and posing for pictures and not

one of them could see the suffering in

front of them so there it was again

this divide where I could see the

suffering and the cries for help in

those animals so clearly but none of the

other humans could and so there was that

divide again and I said to myself I got

to get out of here this was crazy and I

was running for the door as fast as I

could and blocking the exit was a very

very old goat that looked like she was

about to keel over any second and she

looked me in the eyes she asked me for

help and she stopped me in my tracks and

I looked back at her and I said well I

have a little house with a half acre

backyard I guess I could bring home a

goat and I went to find the owner and I

said can I have her and she said no and

I said well I'm gonna stay here till you

say yes and I stayed there for 12 days

won't until finally on the 13th day she

said take the goat and get the heck out

of here and I brought her home found a

mobile vet to come and heal her remove

her tumors trim her overgrown toenails

teach me how to massage her deformed leg

so she could walk again and it was the

greatest feeling I've ever had in my

life I knew right then and there that

that was what I was born to do and so

after healing Mary the goat I went back

to the petting zoo for more animals

because the authorities said they

couldn't help the animals and I ended up

taking a whole barnyard full of animals

home fix them one by one with the mobile

that looked out my window one day to a

backyard that was now full of animals

and said holy cow I just started my

dream and that was 20 years ago



Wow that is an amazing amazing story so

so Jay what what is your introduction

into this world did you to grow up with

this same sort of ability to to

understand the animals


yeah you know Ellie and I had very

similar you know backgrounds where we

both grew up on the East Coast we both

grew up in areas you know near the woods

and you know when I when I first was

kind of going through the abuses and

things like that that happened very

similarly in my life that did with Ellie

and we lived very parallel lives we

don't have enough time in this show to

tell you all about that but we lived

very parallel lives with abuse and

neglect and and difficult childhoods

animals saved us and and saved me and I

you know I was always connected to them

i i rode horses as a young guy we don't

do that anymore but but you know rode

horses and was connected to large

animals and dogs and you know things

like that animals like that that were

part of the saving of my life really and

you know she's always looking for things

to do that were like that and and that's

kind of how i ended up you know at the

gentle born my my daughter went to

volunteer at the Gentle Barn

nineteen years ago Wow and you know when

you hear that story that Ellie just told

and you connect with what's going on at

the Gentle Barn and the healing that's

not only happening for the animals but

also for people it just drew me in and

and I dedicated my life to it now 



Wow. So

 so Ellie backed back to you. You and Jay

 get together and your your… where

 where are you based at this at this time?

 I mean, not right now, but you know when

 you and Jay started really working



Yeah so um Jay came in to

 volunteer at the Gentle Barn and it was

 still located in that little half acre

 backyard in the San Fernando Valley in

 Los Angeles. And I had a handful of

 animals. I had you know a couple of

 horses, a couple cows, a few pigs, and

 chickens, and turkeys, a bunch of dogs all

 rescued from severe abuse and neglect.

 And he came in and he helped me in the


 He helped me clean and feed the animals.

 He helped round up some produce from

 some local Whole Foods. But

 I found out that he had an extensive

 corporate background, so then he helped

 me in the office, set up a website with a

 donate button. He set up our first

 fundraiser. He got on the board of

 directors. And this took about a year

 where we became fast friends. He got more

 and more deeply involved in the Gentle

 Barn, and a year later we realized we had

 fallen in love.



Wow that's amazing.



So now, so now Jay

 and I run the Gentle Barn together and

 he took me from a half acre backyard and

 a handful of animals to where we're

 located today four years later. We are

 now in Santa Clarita California. We have

 a five acre property, and just minutes up

 the road we have another 15 acre

 property which is where most of our

 larger animals live, and it's our healing

 center as well. And then five years ago,

 we branched off into Tennessee. So we're

 located now in Nashville. And almost

 three years ago, we started a general

 barn in St. Louis. So now we're in three

 locations and looking for the fourth .




 that's that's incredible. Jay since since

 you were the person who came in with the

 the business background -at this point

 you're both business people, I get that-

 but you know when you came in and you

 were sitting on the board and pulling

 things together -you know this is also 19

 years ago- was there a blueprint for how

 to do this kind of business? I mean I'm

 I'm curious as to that, you know I know

 about zoos and and and petting zoos... but

 like what you were trying to do, did you

 just have to sort of make this stuff up

 as you went along?



Yeah I mean obviously

 we're a nonprofit organization, so there

 are for sure other nonprofit

 organizations. But as far as the

 sanctuary, I mean if there weren't... now we

 have hundreds of sanctuaries all over

 the place. But we were really OG, you know.

 We were we were, back in the day, we were

 just we were just doing it. And and we

 didn't know anybody. And you know there

 were another couple large ones, but they

 were so far away, and we would sometimes

 call for help and and they'd be like you

 know... we had a cow rescue that we did and

 they were calves that came in very sick,

 and we said you know what do we do? You

 know how do we heal these guys? And they

 were like you know prepare for them to

 die. You know and it's like they just

 didn't have the information, or the

 knowledge, or the ability to do what they

 to instruct us. And so yeah we... I

 mean we really did have to you know do

 the building blocks you know. I didn't

 you know I didn't have nonprofit

 experience. I mean my my family -my

 parents had nonprofit experience and I

 witnessed it as a child- but you know I

 didn't have any formal training. I just

 knew sales and marketing and-and-and

 basic business acumen and just went went

 with it you know. And we did our best you




so so Ellie this is a this is a

business that has benefits for everybody

who sort of touches it right so if

you're if you're a donor obviously you

get to feel really good because you're

you're putting your money to work in a

way that's going to you know allow these

animals to be loved and cared for and

obviously you get to work there it's

probably like a dream because you know

there aren't that many places where you

get to work where you get to be sort of

one with nature and one with animals and

where the respect for humans and animals

is at the same level talk to me about

the experience for people who visit you

know because we were talking about

setting up a time for me and my family

to come visit the one here in Tennessee

what what is the experience for people

who visit and how has it been growing

the Gentle Barn across the country now

you're looking for your fourth you know

location what what is what can someone

expect if they come to visit a gentle



You know, when you think of the

 Gentle Barn -in its very name- you think

 of a place that is sanctuary to animals.

 But the truth is that the Gentle Barn is

 sanctuary to humans as well.

 We host school field trips, private tours.

 We’re open to the public on Sundays, and

 we host groups of at-risk, inner-city and

 special needs children. And it's a place

 of healing for people as well as animals.

 And the very experience of coming to the

 Gentle Barn is something that you

 really have to experience to fully know

 what I'm talking about.

 There is an energy -a healing, loving

 energy- on the property that you can feel

 the minute you get out of your car. It's

 just on the land. It's just the energy

 that's there on the land, and you can

 feel it when your feet touch the earth.

 You exhale. You feel a little lighter. You

 feel a little brighter, and it starts you

 off. Then you can come and hug our cows,

 and for people who have never done this,

 I like to say that we haven't lived ‘til

 we've hugged a cow and cuddled its fur.

 It’s the most wonderful thing in the world. Cows are these giant fuzzy creatures

 with teddy bear ears, and long eyelashes,

 and huge eyes that bare deep into your

 soul. And you can come over to these

 giant creatures, and they will hold still

 for you while you can wrap your arms

 around them, put your faces on them, close

 your eyes, and feel their love. It is like

 the best mom hug you can ever get, and it

 just opens your heart. It connects you to

 every living being. It is

 absolutely beautiful. And then from there,

 we can... people can feed the horses and

 again stand in front of giant creatures,

 and open your hands and see how gentle

 they are. And you feel brave, and

 courageous, and connected. It's wonderful

 and humble all at the same time. And then

 you can go to our smaller barnyards

 where you can hold chickens as they fall

 asleep in your arms. You can give pigs

 tummy rubs as they roll over and grunt

 thank-yous. You can sit on the ground in

 front of our female turkeys and cuddle

 them as they fall asleep in your laps.

 It's just wonderful, and you get to

 practice courage and empathy all at the

 same time. You get to connect with

 creatures that look so different, and the

 takeaway is that no matter what we look

 like, we're all the same. And it's life

 changing. It connects people to animals

 certainly -and to nature- but it also

 connects people right back to themselves

 and to who they are and the goodness and

 love inside of themselves. And people

 leave changed.



that's that's so powerful

Jay I I said before we we came on that I

didn't want to spend a lot of time

talking about it but I did want to talk

about the phenomenon that was Tiger king

before coronavirus

you know we're not really talking about

it that much now but for many people

that were you know totally focused on

technology the world sort of everything

that the Gentle Barn is trying to give

you an escape and a reprieve from right

a lot of people didn't know they don't

even know about sanctuaries like they

may have heard about the elephant

sanctuary but like that might be the end

of it you know and they just sort of

think it's a place where elephants are

rescued and saved you know they don't

know that these things exist and then we

have this phenomenon that is this this

blockbuster show but is obviously like

sort of its kind of dirt TV right you

know what I mean it's like let's let's

look at the disaster of humans that are

troubled and and then how that enter it

you know interfaces with animals you

know I'm sure that the gentle part is

not the only sanctuary out there at this

point it is probably a much larger group

probably a community of leaders you know

how did you know you can tell me it

didn't matter at all but how did it feel

to be you know doing the work that

you're doing and that come out and just

just how did that feel I'm just I'm just

interested in what what 




entertainment you know I mean it's

entertainment it's it's it's

exploitation it's it's mistreatment of

animals it's it's inappropriate behavior

just morally I think people sometimes

get a kick out of watching things like

that and and it was different and I

think that's why it you know it the

things that are different and kooky on

the different kinds of platforms that we

have are what draw attention and and I

think that that's simply what that was

and and you know I I think the things

that that were done in that show I

didn't really watch it but I know about

it and I've seen you know clips of it

are horrendous and and and and it's just

it's it's like it's kind of a sign of

what people are today sometimes you know

like you're really you're willing to

watch that really you know and I guess

as a sanctuary we sort of fall back on

like God well gosh we've been doing this

for 20 years you know we really need

your support here

and we really want you to see what we're

doing because we're doing it in the name

of the animal and we're doing it in that

direction it's kind of you mentioned I

think petting zoo earlier things like

that the difference between what we do

and what say a sanction a petting zoo or

you know that kind of show you know

represents is is simply about money you

know it's about money it's about

exploitation it's about popularity it's

about you know selfishness it's it's all

of those things greed what we're trying

to do on this side is healing health you

know information to people about how

beautiful our animals are and how

they're the same how we're all the same

and how we all have this ability to be

connected and so you know connection and

and and talking about them and and you

know sure there's some parts of what we

do that are a little bit you know self

you know promoting but it's only because

we want to get the information out there

not because Ellie or I have any reason

to talk about ourselves you know we just

really want people to understand you

know and we're in an environment and in

a world right now where we all have to

start really understanding how connected

we are 



yeah I mean I just I just want to

say well thank you for for thank you for

responding to the question there's

nothing that I've gotten in this

conversation that looked that looked

sounded or more importantly felt at all

like the two episodes of that show that

I saw you know I saw like one of the

first episodes and then I saw like the

last episode and it's just like what an

absolute disaster this this whole thing

is like I can't give that what you know

I'm a creator I just can't I can't

consume that much and I definitely am

NOT gonna consume a whole season of that

it's just not it doesn't give me




we're storytellers you know I

mean we're trying to tell a story you

know that's the amazing part about the

general bar that's what we do what we do

is we we share the stories of the

animals and you know we're just conduits

you know we're walking you through what

we have to show if you watch any of our

our you know videos like on YouTube or

whatever that's what you'll see you know

what we're trying to be entertaining it

in a way that invites people to learn



that's probably a really good set

way le to talk about your book as a

storyteller tell us about your book




yeah my book starts in my childhood

understanding what was going on for me

the abuses the loneliness all the ways

that animals saved my life many many

many times in my childhood and how it

turned into me wanting to return the

favor by saving their lives it's about

me getting very very lost and finally

owning Who I am

owning my connections to animals and

saving them in really a way to save

myself it's about starting the gentle

barn all the hurdles it's about meeting

Jay and our beautiful love story it's

about the founding animals of the gentle

barn that taught us everything that we

know it's about those first groups of

children that came out and found

themselves in the barnyard it's a book

that inspires people to live their

dreams no matter what they are it's a

love story that's wonderful and

entertaining to read and it's chock-full

of animals and how they make us a better

human being every day and all their

messages to the rest of us and in a time

in the America in the human history

where we need hope and inspiration more

than any other time it's a good read and

and I hope that it inspires people to

live their dreams and shine their light

and be who they truly are because that's

what I had to learn and overcome through

my book and through my story 



love it my

Gentle Barn everyone go out pick it up

wherever you you buy your books and

that's actually another great segue you

guys are so good at this

haha that's another great segue to talk

and Ellie I'm gonna stick with you and

then circle back to Jay another great

segue to talk about what it's like

running a sanctuary with multiple

locations in the middle of a pandemic

you know on one hand it's outdoors and

so you know when we're trying to

practice social distancing certainly

outdoors are better than indoors and

people are looking for things to do

anything to do people are getting really

you know stir-crazy and tons of cabin


but what is you know what has it been

like over the last hundred and twenty

days for you all you know operating the

Gentle Barn with with the restrictions

that are happening 



yeah I think that

we're really really lucky like you said

to have an outdoor barnyard full of

animals that are living their bliss

every single day and they uplift us my

heart really goes out to people that are

stuck in apartments I don't know what I

would do you know we're on a five acre

property and we could walk out of our

house and be coated safe and be able to

rub pig bellies and see our animals

absolutely thriving and it lifts our

spirits but you know the work that we do

here at the Gentle Barn the last 20

years is using the stories and the

interactions of the animals to get in

front of people and so we're we're doing

multiple school field trips every single

day we're open to the public we're doing

private tours we're visiting with donors

from all over the world and so all of a

sudden 120 days ago that all came to a

screeching halt and so we had to very

very quickly roll with the punches and

bring everything that we do virtually so

we very quickly established virtual

tours virtual school field trips my

gentle classroom which was teaching

science standards out with the animals


yeah it was incredible and we're putting

together in video format so we can sell

it all over the world for for everyone

to share it was it was remarkable we're

gonna be doing a virtual summer camp

here momentarily and we had never done

those things before but what happened

what happened before Coe bid was that

all our visitors we here in California

we would get hundreds and hundreds of

visitors even just on a Sunday and those

visitors would bring with them donations

that would enable us to care for the

animals and keep us strong to bring in

new animals when that came to a

screeching halt all of a sudden those

funds stopped with them and we realized

oh my god are we gonna even be able to

survive this financially and so bringing

everything virtual not only allowed us

to continue our mission

getting in front of people and opening

their hearts and connecting them to this

beautiful world of animals but it also

enabled us to continue fundraising and

connecting with the community so we can

continue as an organization and I'm very

very proud to say that so far we've been

able to retain all our staff well

because it's not just the animals that

are counting on us our staff and their

families are counting on us as well and

to let them go then their families would

be destitute so we were able to keep all

our staff supporting their families we

were able to not only continue caring

for our animals but an interesting thing

happened during koban 19 which is

slaughterhouses were shutting down and

so farmers wanted to get rid of all

their animals and so there was a huge

influx of sending animals to the

slaughterhouses that were pregnant and

they were giving birth on the kill floor

and so we ended up rescuing more animals

than normal in a short span of time

during Koated than other times with the

slaughterhouses calling us saying we've

got all these animals giving birth come

and get them

and so we were able to bring in seven

cows with their babies heal their bodies

they were very very sick and heal their

hearts and teach them to trust people

and so we've been very very busy during

COBIT and our fundraising staff led by

Jay had been very very busy fundraising

and asking our donors to police support

us through this hard time so that we can

get to the other side of it and so far

so good we're very grateful 



well I just

want to say I could owes to you for just

not sitting back and being look I I'm

with you for people who are locked up in

a space where they can't get fresh air

they can't get around you you know I

have my family in my home you you you

know you have your family I've I've just

thought about how much I am sad for

people who are by themselves and lonely

in this moment but there is there is

another thing which is you you didn't

just look at the decrease in revenue you

you took you took the opportunity to

create all these new virtual versions of

everything that you've done I mean you

didn't just say one thing I mean you've

done virtual classrooms and virtual

tours and all these things and to me

it's like that same spirit that has

driven you to grow grow the business

grow the sanctuaries across the country

get the book I just wrote a book it's

super hard so to write the book you know

it's like you're using that same energy

to keep your enterprise alive and and

turning virtual which one when the world

does open back up at some point for good

you'll now have both the in-person thing

plus the virtual thing you know which

will be incredible it will have been an

asset so I just think 



that's that's

that's so so awesome 


Jay just back to

 you because you you mentioned a new

 innovation that you all just just came

 up with that you've rolled out in

 California and will shortly be rolling

 out in in in your other locations. Can

 you talk about that real quick? 



Sure, and

 just two seconds to to say to you that

 yesterday -every day I send an

 inspirational quote our team- and I

 just wanted to say that my my message to

 them yesterday was how impressed I am

 with with us. With our team. With with

 that adaptation that we had to do, and

 that we didn't just sit back and fold,

 and fail, you know. That we we all you

 know came together and and figured out

 these innovative ways and experiential

 ideas and things like that which leads

 to what we're about to do now which is

 our Gentle Drive Through. It's really

 exciting. We actually... the first week we

 did for our season pass holders because

 they've been so generous to us to not

 cancel. I mean like, that they're they

 can't come here, and they can't be a part

 of the organization in a physical way.

 And that's why you have a season pass.

 But these amazing people not only held

 on to their season passes, but renewed

 them. And and and really like stayed by

 and and stood behind us. So we felt

 obligated to them to you know thank them

 by giving them the first experience. And

 basically what it is is we

 are open every Sunday. You go on the

 website and you can book it. And you get

 to come to the Gentle Barn and have a

 drive through immersive experience. And

 you come on the property and you get to

 see inside of our... we have, in California

 we have it. In Tennessee it's about to


 next weekend, not this coming weekend.

 but the next weekend. And and in

 Missouri the same. And but here you get

 to go to our first proper... our second

 property up the road and drive and see

 our Healing Center, and the animals that

 are in there that are quarantined. Which

 is something we would never be able to

 do had we been on foot because we can't

 risk people transmitting the disease

 from one animal to the other and things

 like that. So you can drive

 by them and see them, and have lunch in

 front of the cow pasture. Then drive down

 to the second property, and they get to

 drive through the property. And there's

 all kinds of different experiences they

 get to have one of the most amazing

 -which is something we do with every

 group that ever comes here- is we have

 people interact with our wishing well.

 And so they get to write their wish for

 the world -and for the planet- on their

 rock. And and these people people who

 come to the Gentle Barn they're they're

 deep people you know. They’re very connected,

 deep people, and and the some of the

 things that they're writing and things

 that they're saying are just absolutely

 amazing. And this experience, you know, you

 get lunch included, and popcorn, and and

 you know you get to see all the animals

 and hear their stories. It's just it's

 just special. It's just really amazing.




that that sounds incredible and and I'll

have to follow up with you afterwards to

get the information for when the

Tennessee one opens up that Marsha

Marsha is a big part of the planning of

that oh good no because she's an

incredible event planner

yeah she's incredible that she's been

very helpful in setting up the Tennessee

location and getting it ready to roll

and we're really excited about it

awesome so you know as we discussed a

half-hour goes fast and we're already at

the end but Ellie just leave us with

maybe just just one final note of

inspiration for everybody and also where

people what people can do to support the

Gentle Barn today

yeah so to get involved it's super easy

you could look for the Gentle Barn on

YouTube Facebook Twitter and Instagram

you can check out our website gentle

barn org and read more about our beliefs

and the animals and the work that we do

with children you can sponsor an animal

and pay a nominal donation each month to

get behind the scenes regularly emailed

updates of how that animal is doing and

brand new pictures each month or you can

donate for a bale of hay we have our hay

campaign coming up and you can donate

for a bale of hay our sponsor a bale of

hay every month and then participate in

feeding the animals and supporting the

almost 200 animals that we have think

very and in closing I would like to say

the following I would like to tell

people we have survived as a humanity

for the last several hundred years on

the notion of enslavement exploitation

and dominating others that's you know

and you can see it even in our language

you know the early bird gets the worm

you gotten the fittest survive we have

not been trained or taught to learn to

live as a society to lift each other up

and to live in community we have been

trained to compete to push others down

to fight for what we want and to exploit

others human beings and animals and I

think it is high time with what we're

seeing in our environment we're seeing

the forests being depleted we're seeing

the oceans being polluted we're seeing

species go extinct every day we're

seeing suffering and injustice in our

communities we're seeing illness in our

bodies the solution to all of that is we

need a kinder humanity we need to raise

our children to have reverence for

Mother Earth respect and community with

animals and to live with other humans to

lift each other up and community to love

one another to be kinder and more

compassionate to one another and I think

that when we do that when we create a

community that is not built on

enslavement but rather lifting each

other up every single member of the

planet nature animals and humans alike

will all thrive and benefit and it will

rid our bodies of illness it will free

the animals from their cages and it will

cause the environment and the mother

earth to thrive and flourish and be home

to us for many many many more centuries

to come and so I kind of invite all of

you to check out the Gentle Barn come

for a gentle drive through or come to

hug a cow experience the love that you

have waiting inside of you and expand it

out to all around you and if we all do

that this could be a really really

beautiful world and I hold the picture

of that world in my mind every day and

we get closer to it every day I feel

powerful powerful Wow thank you so much

Ellie and Jay you can follow them gentle

barn org at the gentle branagh on

instagram The Gentle Barn Facebook I

know you had to be moved by that I was

moved thank you both so much for

spending the time today to share your

background your history your mission

your vision your purpose your love story

it's all incredibly inspiring and ya

know thank you so much my book came out

yesterday create new orchestrate we we

hit number one on Amazon and a bunch of

different categories so thanks everybody

for all your support out there and keep

it moving the podcast Marcus Whitney's

audio universe wherever you get your

podcast it's there go subscribe and

follow me everywhere online at Marcus

Whitney that is it I will be back

tomorrow with another episode thank you

so much and I will see you next time

let's build the new normal y'all

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