Addressing Inequity in Healthcare – Marcus Whitney LIVE with Ivelyse Andino
This episode's guest on #MWL is Ivelyse Andino. We discuss Black women in health and health tech, as well as the impact these industries have had on Black women clinically, professionally, and personally.
Ivelyse also talks about her Public Benefit Corp, radical-health.com, and her mission to provide racial equity throughout the healthcare industry.
Where to watch live:
https://youtube.com/marcuswhitneysvideouniverse
https://facebook.com/marcuswhitney
https://linkedin.com/in/marcuswhitney
https://twitter.com/marcuswhitney


MW
what's up have you Monday another
episode of Marcus Whitney live we're 24
hours away from the launch of the book
and I cannot be more excited to not talk
about it I have a much better topic
today we have the wonderful wonderful
innovator in health and advocate
activist and person who I just recently
met but as soon as I connected I've
realized everybody in the world adores
her miss IVA Lee Santino
I've Elise how are you
IA
I'm doing well
this is it's it's mutual it's mutual
like we feel the same way about you
everyone like this is an honor and a
pleasure to be here and I'm excited so
it's a chop you today
MW
yeah it's so great to have you on the
show and it's basically David Dee's who
was our mutual our friend in common he's
a bunch of people who he introduced me
to over the last couple of weeks but he
was like you and I've at least have a
lot to talk about and we haven't even
really had that time to talk yet but
obviously we both work in health care
we're both like people we're you know
we're in this world experiencing all
this craziness today and we're both
innovators and you are you know sort of
knee-deep in an incredible company that
we're gonna ask you about but before we
we get into that just a quick couple of
minutes on on your back story
IA
yeah so I
think for me it's always leaving it's
like I'm from the Bronx I am born and
raised here but that really colors a lot
of like even how I got here today so I
started my career I wanted to be a
doctor didn't realize that you actually
need to prep a lot to become a doctor I
thought you go to college and tada turns
out there are a lot of steps involved in
getting there and somehow find my way
and working for healthcare I ended up
still working in healthcare I worked for
a large biotech company and my job was
to help doctors understand new drugs as
they came out of the FDA so to train
them all doctors and researchers and it
was great so this girl from the Bronx I
made it tada we're here and in that
moment while I was working on an ecology
suite and working on cancer drugs my mom
had cancer
it was a wildest thing to go through an
experience where I ran you know millions
of dollars in budget all the researchers
and doctors FDA at my fingertips but my
mom's in a Bronx Hospital and I have no
idea how to help her support her help
her navigate that world and it was
horrific and so it really forced me to
see just you know the but it's just not
it doesn't matter how much money you
make doesn't matter how smart you are
does matter who you know sometimes these
things are just not fair
so I transitioned a bit from the pharma
world left that and got into tech and
specifically health check where again
led the first platform that let doctors
prescribe apps to patients they needed
someone who had that like how to talk to
doctor feel they also had the tech lane
and so got to do that about ten years
ago and again it was phenomenal cuz here
I am this young you know after left
being up in the Bronx in these rooms and
while I'm doing that uh it became really
clear the folks who could afford these
technologies again did not represent
home towns and home towns like mine but
beyond that I was often the only woman
in the room by far the only person of
color in that room and always the
youngest and it became really crystal
clear to me that in that game right at
those tables like I mean I made it
through but then it was my honor and my
duty and my responsibility to shift the
game which kind of led me to starting
radical health right a space where it
wasn't enough to be at other people's
tables but we really wanted a center the
experiences that you and I have lived
through that you and I have seemed but
to do that with community and to really
shake this help game right on its head
and you know radical health means
radical to get at the root to really get
at the root of people of who we are
personally right and so we started
started there
MW
so but before we get into
what radical health does I want to ask
you a question that people sometimes ask
me and I always wonder like why they
asked me but then as you were talking it
was like oh now I know why they asked me
this so yes you're in this room you're
the only woman of color there and you've
now had this these personal experiences
and now these these power dynamic
experiences around
in healthcare for many different aspects
of it what gave you the belief that you
could go do something about it right I
mean like the this
There are
systems that feel unmovable, and
healthcare, I feel like the more you're in it,
the more it can feel that way, right. It's
such a large, Byzantine system... most
people have no idea how complicated it
- What gave you the confidence, you know,
that you could do something about this?
IA
Yeah. I think that for me, I got to you
know -if we're playing a video game- like
I wasn't just, I just have the
controllers in my hand, I was actually
programming the game as we walked, right.
So I was in an industry -health tech- you
know 10-12 years ago, no one knew what
this was.
And I got to witness folks in
positions of power making decisions. And
at that time right, there literally -what
we see today did not exist- so I saw
people making it up as they went along.
And, more than that right -because I was
like oh okay, that's how that game’s played- I
was on the ground doing the work of like
designing a product, speaking with
clients, getting by, and understanding
what that was. And so for me, it really
came down to like... if I could do this
labor for someone else -someone else who
is making billions of dollars on the
backs, right, of like insurance and
companies- like oh hell no. And then it
became like like not only can I do this
-because I wrote the book for my other
companies, I wrote the book right in in
terms of what we can be doing- so not
only can I do this, I can do it
differently. I can do it in a way that
elevates that is not just.. um like
extractive, that we're not just taking
from communities or people, but we’re
putting back in. Do so with a conscience.
And really, I mean really, flip the script
is what I was going for.
MW
Yeah and...
one more thing. I relate to, I
relate to you so much. You know... how do
you embrace that moment where this,
there's a possibility and there's an
excitement, and at the same time, there's
this sense of obligation because you
also know you are -as far as you know-
uniquely qualified and capable
with the access to be able to do that.
Like how do you, how do you live in that
moment? I feel like I'm spending a lot of
time in that moment right now. How, like
how do you everyday, and how did you at
that moment, I just...
IA
Yeah, I mean at that
moment, it was... I mean it literally was my
duty.
It was my, you know Assata Shakur says you
know “it is our duty to fight for our
freedom. It is our duty to win.” And in
that moment right I was actually... I
started Radical Health, I was on
maternity leave. So I just had my son, and
my best friend from high school
was also pregnant. And what happened was
I had just seen cycles of this where I
have a little bit of leverage or
privilege, first with my mom, then in my
own pregnancy -where I still ended up
with a c-section even though I did all
the right things- you know. But it became
a point where was like this is my duty.
And it is far bigger than me right. I'm
part of the 0.01% right
of black CEOs in health tech um. But like
this is not even about me anymore. The
work that I do... this is a movement. This
is almost like a calling, I would imagine
like Angela Davis right isn't like “I'm
doing this work just for me, this is a
movement work.” Um, and so the way that I
settle with that is like everything that
I do, right, serves a greater purpose. And
it's, it is one to honor the folks who
have come before me that allowed me to
be here, but to like knock down walls so
that everyone else could come behind me,
and and and turn this turn this mother
up.
MW
yeah yep I feel you okay cool
now now talk to me about radical health
what what is what what is radical health
IA
so radical health we consider ourselves
a public health tech company essentially
we believe in health equity and we
believe that that happens through
meaningful conversations for us those
conversations happen in person online
and in a really hyper local way so
through these conversations we use
indigenous circles where we talk with
people in community not just about what
they might need so when we talk about it
like that extractive model like what do
you need what about what they want what
resources they have it really goes down
to to trust so helping people trust
themselves individually
trust their communities in this
collective way and our ultimate goal is
to create some restoration with the
systems that have hurt us and harmed us
we layer that with some tech and
Chopra's were a people first company and
we use tech as a supportive tool and we
built out chat bots and platforms that
help bright individuals with agencies so
we have know your rights for maternal
health and giving people questions to
ask before they go in for an appointment
we're doing kovat support now so what do
you need to know and this again spans
like the breadth of a person's
experience right so we get questions
from where can I get tested to I don't
have any sick days and my employers tell
me that I have to come in and really
helping people navigate this system that
is built on power and hierarchy but
doing so in a way that is relevant it is
like talking to your best friend or you
know your your sister who might be a
nurse right and helping them do that in
a way that feels authentic but really
shares in that power
MW
what what is the
point of introduction between the the
individual and radical health is the is
the is the health system or their
primary care physician introducing them
to radical health or as radical health
getting to them directly through
marketing or through word-of-mouth how
does the individual find and engage with
radical health
IA
yeah so we operate in two
ways so one folks come directly to us
whether they're coming in through a
program we host right now we're posting
online circles or whether they're coming
in through our text message or whatsapp
but the way that we traditionally work
is with partners so we usually have
partners who say I have really ever
really hard time reaching X community
right this specific community in
Brownsville Brooklyn or in Tacoma
Washington and we want to be able to
reach them and serve them in a way that
is authentic and really gets at health equity
and so we partner with
organizations who then bring us on and
we reconnect with them we connect
locally wherever they're physically
located hire locally and then deployed
either our services or our tech solution
so it's a meet Oaks
MW
And and you decided
to set it up as a public benefit
corporation. First maybe just quickly
explain to people what a public benefit
corporation is.
IA
Yes so a public benefit corp... it has the
same structure as a c-corp -technically
right, a for-profit organization- but
within those bylaws, we have a public
benefit. For us, it's to address health
equity, which means that, while we can
make a profit, right, we still have a
purpose and a legal obligation to
fulfill that purpose.
MW
Right, which is
really important because... A) people will
try to say that corporations exist for
the benefit of the shareholders, and it's
really... corporations exist to do whatever
the bylaws and the operating agreement
says they exist to do, right. So it's
it's not... these conventions are not
laws, they're conventions, right. So that's
that's super cool. And I mean I think
I know why you did that,
but how has that shaped the way that you
run the business?
IA
Yeah, so I think you know
early on when I first started... I'm the
first Latina-owned and operated public
benefit corp in all of New York.
MW
Wow. Wow.
IA
Yeah. When I
started doing this you know health tech
equity work, I went to funders. Cuz I was like
alright, we need to raise some capital.
And when I told folks that I was a
benefit corp, I got that door shut on me
so fast.
MW
Really?
IA
It was like oh man, yes.
This is you know 2015. It was... like no one...
was like they were like I had one
investor say “why the hell would you do
that? That is like... why would you do that?
No one's ever gonna invest in you.” And
for me right, it forced me 1) to like
double down on the work. Like okay that's
fine,
in fact I actually don't need your
capital anymore. I'm gonna bootstrap this
company and make it profitable.
Which I did.
MW
Good for you, good for you.
IA
What it's done for
me is it allows me to have a better
vision. It allows me to attract folks
that are committed to the cause. It also
kind of is a screener, right. So if you
don't understand why I did my company, why I
structured my company this way... like
then we're not gonna do business. And
more so now, we're on the trajectory
really to create generational wealth in
our communities, right. And to invite
folks to join in so we can all... we still
can have shares, we can still have equity.
But my method now, as
run my company, it forces me to create like a
much bigger vision, and to do so in a way
that benefits, right, all the people that
I work with. So to the extent that my
communities are shareholders in my
company like. And we all benefit
financially when we do this good work,
has kind of been like this full circle.
So not just on the the work that we do
with community, but on the corporate side,
on the economic side that there's also
impact there as well.
MW
amazing so we're we're now at the
halfway point of the show and it's
probably a good time to segue into the
topic you wanted to talk about right
which is the the role of black women in
in healthcare in power structures and
sort of how that how meaningful that is
in the work that you do but also how you
think that there is a larger message
about this that needs to get out
especially in this moment in time so I
think with that I'll cede the floor to
you to introduce the the conversation
however you want I'm happy to sort of
follow from here
IA
I mean I
think that we're in a unique
moment. We had covid which made us focus right on on health right.
Everyone in this country -in this world-
is considering their physical health and
what that means. We saw then -right- that
folks who were disproportionately
affected were black and brown people
who had covid right. Those are the folks
that died at a higher rate than others.
And then we have the brutal murders of
black men across this country -of black
people across this country I'll say- by
police brutality. That kind of then
layers on an additional component to
what we're seeing, and so we're in this
middle... we're in the middle of like
health equity -health being all the
things that we experience, whether it's
social, emotional, environmental, right the
structures- and our personal lives. And I
think that I've been talking about this
for a very long time.
And the piece that we're missing is that
this isn't necessarily new. Might be new
to some folks who are just kind of
understanding, and we welcome you. Thank
you. But this is a historical thing. This
has been happening for years. We can go
all the way
back to slavery, right, where women -black
women, black men- were used for breeding.
Where black women were used to perform
tests -gynecological like tests- and and
surgeries without anesthesia.
Moving a little forward right we
experienced that, we you know we ended
slavery, in a sense. you know to the
recent history 1950s where we have
Henrietta Lacks -black woman- who without
her consent, her cells were taken from
her. So without her consent, there was a
physician who went in, performed exams,
and she was basically experimented on.
And Henrietta Lacks is really important
because um you know, what we saw there
was really the the trust that we put... the
trust that people -black people, brown
people, indigenous folks- put into the
health care system... Henrietta Lacks went
to get care, and instead she was
experimented on. Her cells taken from her.
And if you look at that
today, we benefit we still benefit from
her -I can't even call it a sacrifice
because it wasn't willing- but with the
her cells, the HeLa cells, we have the
polio vaccine, we have genetic cloning, we
have in vitro fertilization due to her
cells which are still alive, and being
used, and tested on. And there was no
sense of compensation. There was no even
just acknowledgement of what
contribution she gave into health care,
and still gives today. And so from that,
right, we owe a lot of our current
medical benefits -that we are all
benefiting from today- to women. Birth
control pills... so in 1970 about third of
Puerto Rican women were sterilized in
order to test and create what we have as
birth control pills. And you know, I was
born in ‘84... like 1970 is not that long
ago. And so when we look at the history
of health, when we look at the history of
of both science, health, the
social-emotional, where we are today... it's
really to the credit of the black women
that were used… that were experimented
on... that I mean really, again unwillingly,
you kind of sacrifice their lives
theirselves, their families, to have what we
have today. And then beyond that right,
we're now like at this present ish
moment, you know, the the experiences that
we are carrying. I can speak for myself
and and for my friends around me; we are
in this moment where black women are
still working, right. We're still taking
care of families, and being support, and
building communities, and being right
creative, and starting companies to solve
the challenges that we've seen. And the
call today is that we need to
acknowledge right just the historical
piece, but also now support and protect
and understand the role of black women
in our future. We've talked about, you
know, the the other piece that I want to
add is when we look at maternal
mortality rates today, where black women
die 3-4x more likely than
their counterparts, regardless of
socioeconomic status. Doesn't matter how
much money you make, doesn't matter how
smart you are.
We are literally dying today. And in a
day where we we can say that we can look
at black men who are dying at the hands
of police brutality, in many ways black
women are dying at the hands of our
medical industrial complex. And the
advocacy the fight isn't the same
MW
thank
you I'm glad you I'm glad you mentioned
that last part because that is kind of
the that is the the it's so sad when
when you talk about all of the I'll use
the word contributions because that is
the that's the at least I know that that
it's not an adequate word but it's the
word I'm trying to use to honor
the where they were not recognized for
for what they did you know when you talk
about these these unrecognized
uncompensated unjust contributions that
all of society benefits from today in
that at the same time in parallel to
that the system hasn't even managed to
repay black women in terms of equal care
right that is you know it's really it's
really sad because I have felt very good
about being in the health care space for
the last five years prior to this I was
in digital marketing and you know it's
just sort of like a really vapid space
you know for the most part it's like
people doing terrible things you know
all these ads and like it's like a lot
of bad things happening in digital
marketing and I felt like wow I'm
working in health care there's all these
like great people and people who care
but it's like I have gotten to this
point now five years in where it's not
that the people aren't good but the
system damn sure is not good you know
what I mean
the system is not good and it's it is
sad you know it's it's it's really sad
so you know and the thing I've been sort
of attacking and I've been I've been
saying it i I've been saying this for
black people but everything I say for
black people is like you can to exit
when when you're just focusing on black
women right which is the absence of
power in the system the absence of power
in the structure right this this was you
know you know about the post that I
wrote a couple weeks back I mean this
this is the part that I am trying to
focus on this is not to say that the
disparity and outcomes is a pure symptom
of the power but there is no way you can
disconnect the - there's no way you can
look at the lack of
presentation at the center of power and
not know that there is a lack of
adequate advocacy happening there for
these disparities there is acceptance
that these disparities are just the way
it is and when you say things like
regardless of socioeconomic status that
is like the biggest indictment right
like that's the part where you start
realizing holy shit this is this is not
this is just racism that's it that's it
it's just racism and sexism like that's
it it's just black women don't matter to
this system that this would be allowed
so okay I'll see you the floor again
because I think that's like right you
talk there's there's power right but
there's there's concentrated power right
so who's who's at the seat and we're
having this conversation over and over
who's on your board who's on your
c-suite but when you look at who makes
up the rest of those seats for each of
your organizations especially if you
work in health care who cleans your
floors who serves your food right who's
at your front desk right and when you
look at that right especially I'll say
here in New York City across the
healthcare system majority of those
employees are black women right who are
doing the work who are your CNAs
who are your home health aides who are
these folks and the power and so I want
to be really clear this is not that
black women don't have power right cuz
we that's not that's our same is right
right and it's just that who's in
control right who is who is there
talking about the system not about
inherent right god-given power we're
talking about the system right and what
I'll say is that for all of those black
women who are on that ground like that
is an incredible amount of information
of power right a source of resources to
not only have like to live through an
experience in life but then to work
through it and I think that we get to a
point where like you know I I'm
frustrated because I'm like the history
of health care is based on the facts and
bodies of black women and you trusted us
you know to nurse your babies
to create scientific you know revolution
with ourselves
you've trust us to be the front face of
your companies to be out on the ground
to run this but you you don't trust us
to lead to have power to have
self-determination right and authority
over over I mean both like companies
over or our future and I think that you
know you made a really great point about
if you will take this and and you know
think about if you if you look at the
dynamics right and you can exponentially
like apply some of this challenge to
black women
I'd say the reverse is also true when
you think about what happens when we
need and create resources my favorite
analogy is the curb cutouts on sidewalks
right those were created for folks with
disabilities maybe who needed who are in
a wheelchair and needed a ramp to go
down but by creating those curb cutouts
I will say for my kid on his scooter
we've used it with a stroller the days I
might have worn to high heels to walk
through or here on crutches we all
benefit from those curb cutouts and in
many ways as we think about the future
of health as we think about the future
of this world we need to be solving for
those who have been the most ignored and
as a way that we all then benefit
exponentially as well I love it I love
that example that's that's that's so
powerful so alright let's let's leave on
an optimistic note your your company is
doing really well yeah yeah yeah we're
doing good yeah and you're you're
growing you just trying to like manage
growth but things that things are going
well right well it's going really well
you know what started out you know it's
a wild idea where we had people coming
together we layered with tech and and
this you know unique model and folks
said that's never gonna work is working
and now more than ever people need to be
connected we are really forced to be
connected really locally so the idea
that we get to do that that we get to
hold space we're the first to say like
we're not the experts on anything but we
believe people who lived experience are
the experts we get to do that layer in
some tech and then do that in in health
really for me is a dream
and even with the challenges of koban
the current state of events it is a
beautiful thing to witness this wild
idea blooming into something that I
think will and it already is radically
transforming healthcare what can people
do lots of people are you know we've
we've now been having this conversation
for enough weeks that you know I think
we went through the stage of listen
whole space educate yourself and I don't
mean to say like we're done with those
phases but I do think we are ready for
some actions right we are ready for some
actions what would you what would you
tell to someone who wants to leverage
what power and privilege they have to
contribute to lifting up black women I
would definitely say specific
specifically in health care because I I
you know I I feel like we've got it
we've got a fix health care we've got to
fix health care but we can even go more
broadly because not everybody who's
listening or watching is is in is in
health care so what is you know a
specific action that that can be taken
yeah so my my company is based on
meaningful conversations and we use
agreements when we're in space together
you might have heard like one mic one
person stop anytime one of my favorite
agreements is get your cousin and what
that means is that if my cousin is
acting a fool it is my job because I
have that personal relationship to tell
my cousin hey your your accident last
year come on let's talk about it and so
what I would encourage everyone is go
get your cousin if you are listening to
this today and you're like oh wow I
didn't realize that you know I I'm a
part of this I'm complicit I think we
all are we all have our biases and
shortages have that conversation right
so set up a group right and make sure
that it is representative right you need
to have someone there but have a
conversation have a meaningful
conversation let's talk about this what
does that look like how does that play
out and we can talk about you know we
need CEO seats we need board seats we
need we need all that but I think very
tangibly like what are the ways that we
can talk about the way that we both
uphold patriarchy and racism and the
ways that we can dismantle it sorry I
would say have that conversation
if you need help having these
conversations radical health is here we
can help you I can help you we have a
bunch of folks and and just this isn't
even to center that there are a bunch of
people around you that are ready to jump
in that was amazing perfect way to exit
the show I've at least thank you so much
and you know you're gonna have to come
back we'll have to get you back on the
show in a couple of months and I'm gonna
be talking to you offline because we
have too much to talk about so thank you
so much for spending you know I know you
have a busy day you did like another
show today didn't you tomorrow morning
okay yeah well thank you for spending
some time with me all right everybody
out there make sure to follow
I've Elise I've Elise on Instagram on
Twitter radical - health.com is the
company go check them out follow support
this incredible leader this incredible
woman this incredible innovator and yeah
tomorrow's the day create new
orchestrate finally done and out in the
world it's not anticlimactic but I'm
just I'm just bracing myself for all the
feedback so thank you thank you you can
follow me also by subscribing to the
podcast Marcus Whitney's audio universe
on Apple Google Spotify all that good
stuff and everywhere online I am at
Marcus Whitney so that is it tomorrow it
will just be me I'm gonna be on here
probably reading a chapter from the book
and talking about it so I look forward
to seeing you back here tomorrow until
then have a wonderful rest of your
Monday peace